Thinking of Selling on eBay using Paypal? Think Again • Hacker News Board

Re: Thinking of Selling on eBay using Paypal? Think Again

#231

Post by repiret » Mon, Dec 03, 2012, 11:47 PM UTC

NickM wrote: post #218

steve8918 wrote: post #52

The only logical conclusion that can be made from eBay's and Paypal's policies is that they no longer want small sellers to use them. They want professional sellers to sell from their site, people who are used to dealing with chargebacks, etc, and can foot the bill when it comes to chargebacks/fraud. They want to facilitate BUYING from regular people, but make SELLING by regular people very difficult. There is no oth…

There is no other explanation for getting rid of buyer reputation and providing no protection to sellers. I disagree. Back in the old days when I used to use eBay before they removed buyer feedback, it was considered unwise to ever leave a seller negative feedback because they might turn around and leave you negative feedback in retaliation. By removing buyer feedback, it allows buyers to leave unbiased seller feedba…

I always thought the right solution to this problem was to wait for both parties to submit feedback before revealing the feedback.

Re: Thinking of Selling on eBay using Paypal? Think Again

#232

Post by repiret » Mon, Dec 03, 2012, 11:49 PM UTC

steve8918 wrote: post #52

The only logical conclusion that can be made from eBay's and Paypal's policies is that they no longer want small sellers to use them. They want professional sellers to sell from their site, people who are used to dealing with chargebacks, etc, and can foot the bill when it comes to chargebacks/fraud. They want to facilitate BUYING from regular people, but make SELLING by regular people very difficult. There is no oth…

Having recently sold an iPhone on eBay and been concerned about problems like this, I wish eBay would allow non-professional sellers restrict bids to professional buyers.

Re: Thinking of Selling on eBay using Paypal? Think Again

#233

Post by WiseWeasel » Mon, Dec 03, 2012, 11:52 PM UTC

codenerdz wrote: post #126

cmwelsh wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Has PayPal gotten their money back from you yet?

Not yet, but im risking it big time with collections.

Pretty sure that's a losing battle for you. If you can get the money back somehow later, then all the better, but I'd settle with PayPal for now. Ask for a money order next time, cashing it before sending the item.

Re: Thinking of Selling on eBay using Paypal? Think Again

#234

Post by URSpider94 » Mon, Dec 03, 2012, 11:57 PM UTC

gknoy wrote: post #213

URSpider94 wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not a PO Box, it's General Delivery ( https://www.usps.com/manage/forward-mail.htm ). There is no owner, but you may be able to get the info they recorded when the person showed up (undoubtedly fake).

Wouldn't doing something like that (providing fake ID at pickup) be considered Mail Fraud? I seem to recall mail fraud investigations having really big teeth.

IANAL (I've said that a lot in this thread), but I believe so. Actually, I think it may be mail fraud in any regard, if he's using the US Mail to take delivery of his booty and you can show that he had prior intent to commit this scam (which is why he didn't have the packages shipped to his home address). So, maybe the right place to start is with the Postal Inspector, especially since this guy seems like a repeat offender with the same MO.

Re: Thinking of Selling on eBay using Paypal? Think Again

#235

Post by mistermann » Mon, Dec 03, 2012, 11:58 PM UTC

callmeed wrote: post #143

angryasian wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

just wondering how would you expect or how do other companies currently avoid fraud. The costs associated or added with constantly investigating fraud would almost seem like a deterrent in making a system useful.

The same way AirBnB does it: verify everything (phone, email) and provide social context ("You and the seller have 2 friends in common on Facebook"). You could go a step further and remove as much anonymity as possible. Of course, there are other ways to stop fraud which you'd want to do as well.

Facebook has the infrastructure and population coverage to facilitate provide this service.

They could charge for "Verified by Facebook" services. Hell, they could replace eBay and PayPal while they're at it, not to mention AirBnB, CraigsList, etc.

They're stumbling around looking for a business model as it is, I don't know why they don't get into this. Sure, easier said than done maybe, but if anyone can do it, it is Facebook. Becoming the one site that has the single largest repository of known internet identities within it is the hard part.

Re: Thinking of Selling on eBay using Paypal? Think Again

#236

Post by ephibiz » Mon, Dec 03, 2012, 11:59 PM UTC

steve8918 wrote: post #52

The only logical conclusion that can be made from eBay's and Paypal's policies is that they no longer want small sellers to use them. They want professional sellers to sell from their site, people who are used to dealing with chargebacks, etc, and can foot the bill when it comes to chargebacks/fraud. They want to facilitate BUYING from regular people, but make SELLING by regular people very difficult. There is no oth…

To play devil's advocate, how could similar businesses make better decisions? For example, buyer/scammer "A" sends money via credit card payment to seller "B"s paypal/dwolla/freelancer/etc--"C"s account, who then withdraws the money to his bank. Buyer "A" then files and successfully gets a chargeback from the credit card company, who debits company "C".

Now C is wrongfully in the red, and they need to make it back somehow. Their only options? Either get it back from B's account or take the hit--which can really hurt smaller companies and startups.

What would you do in company C's position? It seems that the real bad guy here is the credit card company, TBH.

Re: Thinking of Selling on eBay using Paypal? Think Again

#237

Post by WiseWeasel » Tue, Dec 04, 2012, 12:02 AM UTC

anigbrowl wrote: post #215

I don't have much sympathy for this seller. - General Delivery is a big red flag, paypal confirmed or no. - You should check buyer feedback in advance, not afterwards. - don't leave feedback until you have the cash in your own bank account. - For expensive items, don't just get signature confirmation, pay the extra few $ for insurance. I insure anything over $50, for two reasons: you can claim against the insurance i…

The problem with accepting PayPal or CC payments is that you can withdraw the money from your PayPal account immediately, but they can still issue a charge-back up to 180 days later and your PayPal account will be deducted that amount. For remote transactions, money order by mail or Bitcoin are your only safe, non-reversible options as a seller.

Re: Thinking of Selling on eBay using Paypal? Think Again

#238

Post by Metapony » Tue, Dec 04, 2012, 12:04 AM UTC

CamperBob2 wrote: post #109

jliptzin wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

LOL! What attorney would give a crap about a $500 phone? The sad truth is that in this system of ours, you can screw someone for up to $50-100k and get away with it because that's the minimum potential damages amount that would pique a decent attorney's interest.

What attorney would give a crap about a $500 phone? A class-action attorney?

Didn't paypal just remove the ability to sue them in a class action suit just recently?

Re: Thinking of Selling on eBay using Paypal? Think Again

#239

Post by cynwoody » Tue, Dec 04, 2012, 12:04 AM UTC

DigitalJack wrote: post #17

This seems like a credit card/bank problem, it's not unique to paypal. I was thinking about upgrading my phone and ebaying the old one. After reading this, I'm thinking maybe I'll go the craigslist route, or one of the online trade-in deals. Does gazelle have this same issue? I'm not sure if Gazelle the company buys the product and sells it, or if they just connect me with a buyer like ebay does.

I just looked up an iPhone 4s 32gb unlocked. Gazelle offers about $215.

Swappa.com had six for sale, with asking prices averaging around $450 (there was an outlier at $360).

A quick look at Craigslist Boston shows recent asking prices of $380 to $550.

Of course, I don't have data on what prices the Swappa and Craigslist sellers are actually getting.

I think, if I were really lazy, I'd sell to Gazelle. Otherwise, I would use Craigslist, cash only, meet in a public place.

Re: Thinking of Selling on eBay using Paypal? Think Again

#240

Post by DannyBee » Tue, Dec 04, 2012, 12:04 AM UTC

URSpider94 wrote: post #170

incomethax wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Presumably the OP has an address where he sent his iPhone. Not sure as IANAL, but he theoretically could sue a Doe at a given address and subpoena for an identity.

The scammer had it sent General Delivery. For those not familiar with the term (it's not used commonly these days), it's possible to have something shipped General Delivery to any post office, then walk in and pick it up. See https://www.usps.com/manage/forward-mail.htm for more info. This seems like one of those arcane system hacks that's ripe for abuse. He/she presumably had to show some ID and sign something to ge…

You think general delivery is also his credit card billing address?

Do you think he walks in with different fake ids every time he does this?

Do you think he also uses different credit cards with paypal?

Or do you picture him as a nomad, like the old guy from Kung Fu: The Legend Continues, traveling the country collecting fake ids, credit cards, and iphones?

If he is super-master-ninja and all else failed, do you think it would be more or less expensive than court to honey pot him, ship him a box of rocks (or something that takes continual pictures and uploads it instantly) in a very bright pink package, fly super-economy to the place he is supposed to pick it up, and then sit in the post office a few days waiting to see your package picked up, and take pictures of the guy and his car plates?

Unless of course, he only uses public transportation to cover his tracks (or steals random cars every time he needs to travel to the post office!), and wears facial disguises, sunglasses, and a hat to make sure no camera gets a good look at him. Never the same motel room twice, always paying cash, blah blah blah.

Reality: It's actually very hard to hide when your fraud requires picking up physical items at a known location.

It's easier to hide remotely, but not so much otherwise. Even remotely, i'd put 20 bucks down that given only the info the seller has about the guy, 4chan or reddit could find in 2 days or less.