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Framework's 10G Ethernet module exposes USB-C's complexity

jeffgeerling.com

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Re: Framework's 10G Ethernet module exposes USB-C's complexity

#121

Post by bjt12345 »

timschmidt wrote: post #19
RachelF wrote: post #6

Every PCIe 10G ethernet card I've seen has a heatsink on it, sometimes covering the entire card or even have little fans on the heatsink. Expecting it to work full time in a laptop is a bit of a stretch of the heat dissipation budget. Also, the laptop he is working has the AMD FP8 chipset - depending on how the ports are setup, he might only get 10G USB, if the ports are allocated to video instead.

New chips from Realtek burn https://www.servethehome.com/cheap-10gbe-realtek-rtl8127-nic...

Does it go beyond 30 Metres?

Re: Framework's 10G Ethernet module exposes USB-C's complexity

#122

Post by bjt12345 »

trumpdong wrote: post #114
drnick1 wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I looked in to it and it seemed like 10gbit was much better over fiber. Yes, except that most devices use Ethernet. So, at the end of the day, you still need Ethernet cables unless you want to deal with an additional switch or converter in every room.

If you have a fixed computer or NAS, stop making excuses and install a 10G fiber card in it. If you have a laptop or TV it probably doesn't need 10G.

Fibre requires conduit with specific radius bends, making it difficult to route through a house.

Re: Framework's 10G Ethernet module exposes USB-C's complexity

#123

Post by fluoridation »

eqvinox wrote: post #119
fluoridation wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you want to ackshually, both fiber and copper are empty pipes that can carry any layer 2 protocol, and are not inherently Ethernet. They only become Ethernet cables when they're connected to terminals that pass that protocol through them. Unless we're defining some networking standard, "Ethernet cable" is a perfectly acceptable term. Everyone will understand what is meant. The added specificity you're asking for d…

That's why I added base-*R/base-T. And particularly for 10GE the heat and power problems are due to the copper transceiver DSPs. And people nerdy enough to run 10GE at home might well run fibre. So, no, the specifity is needed and useful.

>That's why I added base-*R/base-T.

You're still talking about a cable. The cable may be compatible with those standards, but you can put anything through it. It's just a physical connection.

>And people nerdy enough to run 10GE at home might well run fibre. So, no, the specifity is needed and useful.

No, because if you say "which do you want? Ethernet or fiber?" no one will look at you like if you asked if they want salt or beef. It's technically incorrect, but everyone will understand what is being asked.

Re: Framework's 10G Ethernet module exposes USB-C's complexity

#124

Post by bjt12345 »

jfb wrote: post #7
RachelF wrote: post #6

Every PCIe 10G ethernet card I've seen has a heatsink on it, sometimes covering the entire card or even have little fans on the heatsink. Expecting it to work full time in a laptop is a bit of a stretch of the heat dissipation budget. Also, the laptop he is working has the AMD FP8 chipset - depending on how the ports are setup, he might only get 10G USB, if the ports are allocated to video instead.

Yeah, 10Gb ethernet runs hot . I just rewired the house with 10Gb (we have 8Gb FTTP) and it's kind of upsetting how hot my Thunderbolt dock gets.

Hopefully short-run 10GIGE-T might get cooler with better DSP, but for long runs I think it will remain fibre.

Re: Framework's 10G Ethernet module exposes USB-C's complexity

#125

Post by throw0101d »

bjt12345 wrote: post #121
timschmidt wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

New chips from Realtek burn https://www.servethehome.com/cheap-10gbe-realtek-rtl8127-nic...

Does it go beyond 30 Metres?

Certified Cat6 cable gets you 10GbE up to 55m (and even 5e is workable), while Cat 6A goes to 100m.

* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethernet_over_twisted_pair#Var...

Re: Framework's 10G Ethernet module exposes USB-C's complexity

#126

Post by Thews »

matt-p wrote: post #103
retired wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about overhead? Can you truly do 10Gb/s networking on a 10Gb/s USB port? Would having such NIC on a 20Gb/s USB port not result in higher speeds?

It uses 128b/132b encoding so 10Gb/s USB ≈ 9.69Gb/s you do then have USB framing overhead but it's probably around 2% on typical 1500B ethernet frames. So all in you are losing probably 5% or so to overhead. I am of the opinion that 5Gbe is a much more sensible speed for a laptop adapter right now as it uses half the power and can obviously run full wack on 10Gb/s USB so you're looking at like 5Gbe vs ~9.4Gbe.

5GBASE-T interfaces often use 3x less power than 10GBASE-T

Re: Framework's 10G Ethernet module exposes USB-C's complexity

#127

Post by rowanG077 »

devmor wrote: post #47
timschmidt wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pi 4 and 5 both idle around 3W. But a Pi 5 can pull up to 16W with a USB peripheral, full CPU load, and decoding 4k video. The Pi 4 / 5 will run OKish without a heatsink at idle wattages, but thermal throttle quickly if you attempt to do something intensive. These realtek 10gbe chips are more in the range of the Pi Zero class machines (0.5W idle, 2W loaded) which don't often come with heatsinks though they might bene…

> The Pi 4 / 5 will run OKish without a heatsink at idle wattages, but thermal throttle quickly if you attempt to do something intensive. Even with a heatsink and fan, I had to upgrade to a higher quality set to keep Jellyfin from thermal throttling a Pi5 while transcoding 4K video.

4k video transcoding is anything but an idle load.

Re: Framework's 10G Ethernet module exposes USB-C's complexity

#128

Post by einsteinx2 »

drnick1 wrote: post #40

Does a laptop really need more than 1Gbps or whatever you can get through WiFi? It's an edge device not a router.

No one needs anything, but can and do I use more than 1Gbps from my laptop? Of course. 1Gbps is only ~125MB/sec transfer speed. When I’m copying large files to and from my home NAS, I often want more speed than that so a while ago I picked up a 2.5g adapter, later 5g, and now finally with these new chips a 10g adapter.

Same for my SFF PC which only came with 2.5g onboard and no extra slots because ITX and can now do 10g via the same USB adapter which is great.

Re: Framework's 10G Ethernet module exposes USB-C's complexity

#129

Post by [deleted] »

matt-p wrote: post #103
retired wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about overhead? Can you truly do 10Gb/s networking on a 10Gb/s USB port? Would having such NIC on a 20Gb/s USB port not result in higher speeds?

It uses 128b/132b encoding so 10Gb/s USB ≈ 9.69Gb/s you do then have USB framing overhead but it's probably around 2% on typical 1500B ethernet frames. So all in you are losing probably 5% or so to overhead. I am of the opinion that 5Gbe is a much more sensible speed for a laptop adapter right now as it uses half the power and can obviously run full wack on 10Gb/s USB so you're looking at like 5Gbe vs ~9.4Gbe.

[deleted]

Re: Framework's 10G Ethernet module exposes USB-C's complexity

#130

Post by davrosthedalek »

adrian_b wrote: post #120
retired wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about overhead? Can you truly do 10Gb/s networking on a 10Gb/s USB port? Would having such NIC on a 20Gb/s USB port not result in higher speeds?

Both 10 Gb/s Ethernet and 10 Gb/s USB have bit data rates that are 3% lower than 10 Gb/s, due to encoding (64/66 bits for Ethernet, 128/132 bits for USB). So the their maximum speed is approximately 9.7 Gb/s. Then for Ethernet there is a protocol-dependent overhead, e.c. depending on whether TCP or UDP is used, and depending on whether standard packets or jumbo packets are used. The TCP overhead can reach in the wors…

10 Gig ethernet is 10GBps usable rate (before packet overhead). The line rates are higher to accommodate this. For 10GBase-R, it's typically 10.3125 GBps, with a 64/66 encoding. For 10GBase-T, it's 4 lanes with PAM-16 at 800 MBaud -> 12.8 Gbps raw.
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