Live data from Hacker News

White House delays US voting-machine vulnerability report

reuters.com

151–160 of 161 posts

Re: White House delays US voting-machine vulnerability report

#151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Isn’t it weak, two point out that no one can find evidence after the fact, versus the proper alternative that no one can prove that they’re actually-secure before the fact? Isn't it weaker, to claim fraud so vast it changed a presidential election, while presenting no evidence? Then, to ask for billion-dollar changes to voting, which also suppress voting, and when asked why, to shrug and then repeat the same debunk…

You people are ridiculous. Such mental gymnastics for a simple fact: no one can prove elections are secure. End of story.

No need, the onus is on election deniers and voting opponents to first convincingly prove they're insecure enough to justify changing things.

So far, they've tried hard a lot, and failed hard a lot. All they have left is mental gymnastics.

Re: White House delays US voting-machine vulnerability report

#152
post #34

I'd love to hear the steelman - what's the argument in favor of using a proprietary electronic system? There have been legit complaints about closed sourced voting systems for ~20 years and DEFCON has done a "Voting Village" for ~10 years demonstrating numerous issues, some of which were not addressed by the next elections. Transparency doesn't appear better either. Is it speed to tally? Cost? Easier to screw with re…

It’s cheaper in the short term because these are COTS products. But that’s not a good reason. Voting security should be “zero trust.” We should count votes the same way the Taiwanese, without reliance on technology: https://youtu.be/DUZa7qIGAdo . Voting should be

Agreed.

Re: White House delays US voting-machine vulnerability report

#153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You people are ridiculous. Such mental gymnastics for a simple fact: no one can prove elections are secure. End of story.

No need, the onus is on election deniers and voting opponents to first convincingly prove they're insecure enough to justify changing things. So far, they've tried hard a lot, and failed hard a lot. All they have left is mental gymnastics.

Yes, this makes sense that it’s OK that banks do not need to audited and proven that they handle money well, if I don’t know any bank robbers then I have no reason to suspect any issue!

Do you seriously hear yourself? Ideologue life is crazy.

Re: White House delays US voting-machine vulnerability report

#154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Isn’t it weak, two point out that no one can find evidence after the fact, versus the proper alternative that no one can prove that they’re actually-secure before the fact? Isn't it weaker, to claim fraud so vast it changed a presidential election, while presenting no evidence? Then, to ask for billion-dollar changes to voting, which also suppress voting, and when asked why, to shrug and then repeat the same debunk…

You people are ridiculous. Such mental gymnastics for a simple fact: no one can prove elections are secure. End of story.

You're replying to a thread where it is proven that they're secure.

Re: White House delays US voting-machine vulnerability report

#155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No need, the onus is on election deniers and voting opponents to first convincingly prove they're insecure enough to justify changing things. So far, they've tried hard a lot, and failed hard a lot. All they have left is mental gymnastics.

Yes, this makes sense that it’s OK that banks do not need to audited and proven that they handle money well, if I don’t know any bank robbers then I have no reason to suspect any issue! Do you seriously hear yourself? Ideologue life is crazy.

Elections are audited as a matter of course. In California every election is audited after the fact, in addition to observers (including from the different parties) wherever voting, tabulating, and auditing occurs. Here's the bill of rights for election observers: https://www.sos.ca.gov/administration/regulations/current-re... They have access to everything.

Claims of fraud generally come from either people who have no experience with elections (and apparently don't care enough to get involved), or wish to sow uncertainty and doubt in their self-interest.

Sometimes auditors make complaints, but those complaints are a far cry from the accusations thrown around in public discourse. More often election officials themselves make recommendations to improve things--usually efficiency related--but the discourse is so heated legislatures often don't want to get involved, or if they do it's to appease some political faction, not to address the mundane issues that actually need addressing.

If you're so worried about election fraud, get involved. There aren't any barriers. Heck, in some places you can easily volunteer to host a voting place. Some years we get flyers to ask if we want to host, but usually the only house on our block who offers is the same one down the block.

What I don't get is the conspiratorial minded folks who make accusations, but demand other people fix whatever imagined problem exists. How can you trust the new system any more if you're still a keyboard warrior? It makes no sense. The public is locked out of direct involvement with most machinations of governance, but elections are one of the few areas where you're free to get involved at almost every level with minimal, even zero friction.

Re: White House delays US voting-machine vulnerability report

#156

What does HN know about https://www.voting.works/ ? (open source/hardware voting machine) Note, they are also trying to change the USPS rules regarding mail-in ballots, such that the USPS will not deliver ballots either direction unless the recipient is on a list they are allowed to make. Public comment is open until July 2 https://www.regulations.gov/document/USPS-2026-1289-0001

Since the President has no constitutional role in running elections, what do you think this order is meant to do?

Re: White House delays US voting-machine vulnerability report

#157
post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All places, outside the American South in the United States don't have a problem, the American South however, is where it is a time honored tradition to make it hard to vote for some citizens. And it has always been political and other things in the south.

The South does have this problem. But pretending it's /only/ the South does no favors to people who are disenfranchised elsewhere. A quick google will show that it has been a nationwide problem: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voter_suppression_in_the_Unite...

Where could it have affected totals? Only southern states.

Wisconsin in 2016 couldn’t have changed the electoral college.

Re: White House delays US voting-machine vulnerability report

#158
post #39
post #4

Seems to be an exclusive article that's also paywall. Anyone know the story? Ensuring secure elections and auditing extensively seems like good practice. However the issue has become political and neither party is interested in that. The right claims fraud with no good evidence, in response the left has decided that our elections perfectly secure and to suggest otherwise gets you a sound "tsk tsk"

> the right claims fraud So does the left every time Trump wins.

[dead]

Re: White House delays US voting-machine vulnerability report

#159
post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The butteryfly ballot was an approved but confusing ballot that almost certainly cost Gore the election. But what is the remedy? There's no other choice but to have a better ballot next time. "The voters were confused by a legal and approved ballot" can't be the basis to overturn an election or it'll never end. Another good example of this is how Alaska adopted ranked choice voting. In 2022, the 2 Republican candidat…

Approval voting is the only workable RCV.

LOL, it's cardinal (rated) not ordinal (ranked), but yeah.

Re: White House delays US voting-machine vulnerability report

#160
post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is implementing that in a way that doesn't disenfranchise a lot of people. Most or all countries that have the kind of robust national ID system for such a system also make sure it is easy for every citizen to get the necessary ID. Such a system could be added to the US without too much disruption if we did it gradually, say making it only apply to people born after 2030 so there is time to get all the su…

Only US citizens are allowed to vote. How do you control for that without ID of some sort?

that's only true of federal elections, not universally tho.
Post reply on HN