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The 'papers, please' era of the internet will decimate your privacy

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Re: The 'papers, please' era of the internet will decimate your privacy

#81

Post by Ifkaluva »

gchamonlive wrote: post #39
Ifkaluva wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the US? I think you most likely need to provide proof of an address

What if you are homeless? Can you at least sit and read there?

Certainly, but I think you need to have a library card to use the computers.

I do see folks who look homeless using the computers, so I assume there must be a special accommodation for them.

But, if you’re just a regular middle class joe looking for anonymity on the internet, I don’t think the library is the place for you—it’s tied to your library card which knows your address, and anyway what would you want to be private that you would be ok to broadcast in an open library setting? Nobody watching corn or browsing whatever successor to Silk Road.

Usually the login screen says something about fairly restrictive terms of use, even for the WiFi on a personal device, and I don’t know if you can install software on the library computers.

When I look around at library patrons using the computers, it’s usually lower income folks applying to jobs or similar, and people playing chess.

Re: The 'papers, please' era of the internet will decimate your privacy

#82

Post by Geezus_42 »

andai wrote: post #65
nemomarx wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As you say, it's doubtful governments want it to be private. So we should expect them to not use these kind of elegant solutions, and the public is generally not sophisticated enough to distinguish between the options already.

In what direction do the incentives point?

For who?

Re: The 'papers, please' era of the internet will decimate your privacy

#83

Post by madrox »

bigbuppo wrote: post #64
madrox wrote: post #40

I'm pretty sure this is a "pick your poison" problem. We as a society are damned no matter what we do or do not do. For my part, we need to do something, because things are not fine the way they are, including the half ass Australian solution. We can't keep putting the onus on private enterprise to address social issues. I may sound crazy for saying so, but I think the answer is more government run infrastructure for…

And yet as the article mentioned, the "problem" is a lie... an excuse to justify the surveillance state.

I think the lie is to look at the problems we have that the internet has enabled and say "things are ok as they are don't try to do anything to solve it."

Re: The 'papers, please' era of the internet will decimate your privacy

#84

Post by rockskon »

teravor wrote: post #69
rockskon wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Zero Knowledge Proofs are worthless for this. Either they validate so little information that a single homeless person can authenticate the entire country or they validate so much information as to not have a significant privacy guarantee. There is no in-between for ZKP validating someone's age.

worthless is too strong. the truth is that the two extremes you listed can be titrated. if you use nullifiers you can trade some privacy for some security. basically you convert your true identity into a private token which you can use to authenticate aspects of yourself, the price being that the token can be tracked with some effort across services. better than just using your identity at least. if a token/nullifier…

Okay - so you verify age and what else?

What combination of details can you validate on that is meaningfully privacy-preserving and couldn't result in wide-spread re-use of tokens?

Additionally - what would prevent some kids from getting a homeless man in the city to hand them his ID, get a facial scan, and everything else you can think of to generate a token and then pass that token around?

ZKP are a cryptography-nerd's joy but are are categorically unsuitable for the purpose of age verification. I stand by this without the slightest reservation.

Re: The 'papers, please' era of the internet will decimate your privacy

#85

Post by jazz9k »

__MatrixMan__ wrote: post #11
gchamonlive wrote: post #2

Who'd have guessed hitting the library would become an act of rebellious defiance

Do you know any librarians? Public libraries have always been a bit punk rock.

Punk rock has always been right wing. Libraries are about as far from this as they can get.

Re: The 'papers, please' era of the internet will decimate your privacy

#87

Post by teravor »

rockskon wrote: post #84
teravor wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

worthless is too strong. the truth is that the two extremes you listed can be titrated. if you use nullifiers you can trade some privacy for some security. basically you convert your true identity into a private token which you can use to authenticate aspects of yourself, the price being that the token can be tracked with some effort across services. better than just using your identity at least. if a token/nullifier…

Okay - so you verify age and what else? What combination of details can you validate on that is meaningfully privacy-preserving and couldn't result in wide-spread re-use of tokens? Additionally - what would prevent some kids from getting a homeless man in the city to hand them his ID, get a facial scan, and everything else you can think of to generate a token and then pass that token around? ZKP are a cryptography-ne…

the same thing that prevents them from doing reuse right now: platform detection mechanisms. the difference is that right now the identity of the subject is known whereas with ZKP (nullifier approach) only the dirty token is known and where that token was used.

Re: The 'papers, please' era of the internet will decimate your privacy

#89

Post by StanislavPetrov »

OnionBlender wrote: post #8
gchamonlive wrote: post #2

Who'd have guessed hitting the library would become an act of rebellious defiance

How is hitting the library an act of rebellious defiance? Getting a library card requires an ID and proof of address. The library then tracks which books you've signed out. Unless you're reading the books inside the library without signing them out.

My library card has no picture on it. Me and 100 of my closest friends could easily share the same card.

Re: The 'papers, please' era of the internet will decimate your privacy

#90

Post by rockskon »

teravor wrote: post #87
rockskon wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Okay - so you verify age and what else? What combination of details can you validate on that is meaningfully privacy-preserving and couldn't result in wide-spread re-use of tokens? Additionally - what would prevent some kids from getting a homeless man in the city to hand them his ID, get a facial scan, and everything else you can think of to generate a token and then pass that token around? ZKP are a cryptography-ne…

the same thing that prevents them from doing reuse right now: platform detection mechanisms. the difference is that right now the identity of the subject is known whereas with ZKP (nullifier approach) only the dirty token is known and where that token was used.

So....what exactly would platform detection mechanisms be basing their decisions off of that wouldn't defeat the entire privacy-preserving premise of ZKP?
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