Thinking of Selling on eBay using Paypal? Think Again • Hacker News Board

Re: Thinking of Selling on eBay using Paypal? Think Again

#81

Post by tlogan » Mon, Dec 03, 2012, 9:20 PM UTC

steve8918 wrote: post #52

The only logical conclusion that can be made from eBay's and Paypal's policies is that they no longer want small sellers to use them. They want professional sellers to sell from their site, people who are used to dealing with chargebacks, etc, and can foot the bill when it comes to chargebacks/fraud. They want to facilitate BUYING from regular people, but make SELLING by regular people very difficult. There is no oth…

Of course. If you look their website now and their SEC filings, it is clear that eBay is not any more "garage sales on internet with auctions". It is more like discount store.

Are there any of YC companies building "garage sales on internet"?

Re: Thinking of Selling on eBay using Paypal? Think Again

#82

Post by tb303 » Mon, Dec 03, 2012, 9:20 PM UTC

codenerdz wrote: post #38

OP here. Interestingly enough, my conversations with Paypal became more and more surreal and I felt more and more powerless with every one in the end. I had a trail of information and there was evidence of multiple fraud, but I never felt as powerless as I did after my phone calls with Paypal. I am in contact with the police captain in the small town where the item was shipped, but I have very little faith in their a…

That is exactly what happened with me. The way they hide behind poor communication and offshore CS reps is amazing. I'd receive answers to my emails that had nothing to do with the content itself, recommendations to check a FAQ in response to three hours of phone calls with detailed information about the incident, etc.

I'm happy you are publicizing this, but the thing is, this is happening everywhere, to all kinds of people, and eBay/PayPal are not doing anything about it.

After striking out with appeals and the Better Business Bureau, I believe the only way forward is to pressure the FTC through our government representatives.

Re: Thinking of Selling on eBay using Paypal? Think Again

#83

Post by amalag » Mon, Dec 03, 2012, 9:21 PM UTC

It is a problem when you consider a buyer has usually 6 months to do a chargeback and you have 60 days to leave feedback and cannot change it later.

Re: Thinking of Selling on eBay using Paypal? Think Again

#84

Post by tb303 » Mon, Dec 03, 2012, 9:21 PM UTC

DannyBee wrote: post #78

codenerdz wrote: post #38

OP here. Interestingly enough, my conversations with Paypal became more and more surreal and I felt more and more powerless with every one in the end. I had a trail of information and there was evidence of multiple fraud, but I never felt as powerless as I did after my phone calls with Paypal. I am in contact with the police captain in the small town where the item was shipped, but I have very little faith in their a…

If you really want the money back, sue the guy. File a miscellaneous action in Ohio and then use subpoenas to acquire his real address/billing info. Contact the state AG and local federal AG's as well, just for kicks. Note that if you go to file a small claims action, you will actually have to be present in Ohio. They require in-personam jurisdiction. (You do have the option of filing in local federal district court…

You can't sue a fake identity

Re: Thinking of Selling on eBay using Paypal? Think Again

#85

Post by pavel_lishin » Mon, Dec 03, 2012, 9:21 PM UTC

jack-r-abbit wrote: post #74

pavel_lishin wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only way I would sell an expensive piece of electronics would be via local Craigslist, in person, probably for cash that I'd prefer to witness the buyer withdraw out of an ATM.

I'm curious why you think you should see the buyer actually withdraw from an ATM? If I was a buyer and the seller asked to follow me to my ATM, I'd be concerned.

I actually probably wouldn't do that, but it would be a pretty good hedge against receiving counterfeit currency.

Re: Thinking of Selling on eBay using Paypal? Think Again

#86

Post by pavel_lishin » Mon, Dec 03, 2012, 9:21 PM UTC

lh7777 wrote: post #40

pavel_lishin wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only way I would sell an expensive piece of electronics would be via local Craigslist, in person, probably for cash that I'd prefer to witness the buyer withdraw out of an ATM.

Just like anything else, selling in person to a stranger is not without risk either. I wonder how the frequency of robberies associated with Craigslist sales compares against eBay fraud like this one. Personally, I'd rather get hit with a chargeback than a baseball bat.

Sure, but I wouldn't ask the buyer to come to my house at 2 in the morning, nor would I agree to meet him in that alley behind the biker bar, either.

Re: Thinking of Selling on eBay using Paypal? Think Again

#87

Post by tb303 » Mon, Dec 03, 2012, 9:23 PM UTC

mibbitier wrote: post #6

> " If youre thinking of selling an expensive item on eBay, think again. " I would say, this type of fraud is exclusively targeted at cellphones, ipods, netbooks etc. If you're selling something like an antique grandfather clock, you should be fine. Of course anything that requires collection, or couriering is going to be more traceable and secure. I have sold hundreds or maybe thousands of items on eBay. The only on…

It's just that the scamming is more common with iPhones. There are many public cases where the similar scam was pulled as the buyer returned an "item not as described" as an empty guitar case full of rocks/synth box full of books/etc.

Re: Thinking of Selling on eBay using Paypal? Think Again

#88

Post by DannyBee » Mon, Dec 03, 2012, 9:23 PM UTC

tb303 wrote: post #84

DannyBee wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you really want the money back, sue the guy. File a miscellaneous action in Ohio and then use subpoenas to acquire his real address/billing info. Contact the state AG and local federal AG's as well, just for kicks. Note that if you go to file a small claims action, you will actually have to be present in Ohio. They require in-personam jurisdiction. (You do have the option of filing in local federal district court…

You can't sue a fake identity

Actually, you can (John Doe lawsuits).

Besides that, most of these scams are not that sophisticated as you see in spy movies. You subpoena a few folks, and you get the identity.

It usually turns out to be a 16 year old, but you still get it.

Re: Thinking of Selling on eBay using Paypal? Think Again

#89

Post by angryasian » Mon, Dec 03, 2012, 9:24 PM UTC

tlogan wrote: post #81

steve8918 wrote: post #52

The only logical conclusion that can be made from eBay's and Paypal's policies is that they no longer want small sellers to use them. They want professional sellers to sell from their site, people who are used to dealing with chargebacks, etc, and can foot the bill when it comes to chargebacks/fraud. They want to facilitate BUYING from regular people, but make SELLING by regular people very difficult. There is no oth…

Of course. If you look their website now and their SEC filings, it is clear that eBay is not any more "garage sales on internet with auctions". It is more like discount store. Are there any of YC companies building "garage sales on internet"?

just wondering how would you expect or how do other companies currently avoid fraud. The costs associated or added with constantly investigating fraud would almost seem like a deterrent in making a system useful.

Re: Thinking of Selling on eBay using Paypal? Think Again

#90

Post by TheAmazingIdiot » Mon, Dec 03, 2012, 9:24 PM UTC

UnFundedHype wrote: post #46

The whole tech culture is also to blame. I'm sure there have been a LOT of great alternate ebay, paypal start ups who just didn't get traction. Bloggers won't talk about you if you haven't raised a million and you won't get much traction on google without bloggers or spending major bucks. My Dreamybids.com site for example, is an awesome service that uses the quibids model. It allows anyone to host their own auctions…

Quibids is one of the scammy-iest "auction" site abound. It's name is called Penny-Scam Auction

The gist for those that do now know: you buy bid-packs. A bid costs .60$, per BID. This doesn't matter if you "win" the item. If you do "win" (gamification abound), then you pay what the bid was brought up to. The other scam-note is that bids increase usually by $.01 so you see shit like "XYZ WON AN IPAD FOR 2.73$ !!!". While in reality, the "winner" pays $2.73+$40 in bids, along with everyone else to get the permission to bid.

If you type in quibids in google, the top auto-fill is SCAM. Just go look it up.

Btw UnFundedHype: I hope your scam of a business fails, and fails hard. You know better than this shit.