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Deno 2.9

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Re: Deno 2.9

#51

Post by MoonWalk »

someguyiguess wrote: post #23
MoonWalk wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well if Node compatibility is your big deal then yeah, why not just use it? I started a new project on Deno to avoid the NPM mess. Node compatibility was a distraction for the product. I'm tired of everything depending on Node. Assuming that everybody uses it is lazy.

To be fair, you can't blame a person for thinking that a runtime created by the same guy who created Node would work with Node.

I never thought that, and I know very little about the space. In attempting to learn about the available options as fast as possible (along with TS and JS), I learned that the same guy launched a total re-do to address the shortcomings he realized through years of experience with his original product. I didn't imagine he could do that without breaking compatibility.

Re: Deno 2.9

#52

Post by phaser »

bobajeff wrote: post #48
phaser wrote: post #36

I am the freaky outlier that's actually excited about this. My city builder game, Microlandia[1], runs on Deno. The game's graphics and UI is a Three.js/React app, but the guts of the game are in a "sidecar" process that is a `deno compile` typescript executable. On Mac, there's a Tauri shell that runs both client and server, and for Linux and Windows we use Electron, (Tauri proved to be quite problematic except when…

Congrats on your game it reminds me both of SimCity on the SNES and SimCity 2000 (pc). I'm also using a cursed stack (deno + pyodide) and it's awesome! Everything works surprisingly well and I can do my Python experiments in a notebook while hot reloading via vite in a browser + quickly try things in the dev console.

is it also a game? godspeed!

Re: Deno 2.9

#53

Post by auraham »

phaser wrote: post #36

I am the freaky outlier that's actually excited about this. My city builder game, Microlandia[1], runs on Deno. The game's graphics and UI is a Three.js/React app, but the guts of the game are in a "sidecar" process that is a `deno compile` typescript executable. On Mac, there's a Tauri shell that runs both client and server, and for Linux and Windows we use Electron, (Tauri proved to be quite problematic except when…

> Tauri proved to be quite problematic except when in macOS

Can you elaborate?

Re: Deno 2.9

#55

Post by steve_adams_86 »

mmastrac wrote: post #22

One of the most fascinating things to fall out of the AI apocalypse is seeing how abundant AI access amplifies the qualities of a company. IMO, Deno has always been more methodical, more focused (maybe too focused?) on standards. But now the Deno team is on the right track: using Claude extensively to improve the node.js compat which was absolutely herculean if not impossible before AI. [+] On the other hand, Bun has…

You're touching on something I've been thinking about a lot lately. There's this notion that LLMs only increase volume and there's an inevitable intrinsic decline in quality. In reality, it's more like an amplifier as you mentioned; people interested in good engineering can iterate more deeply and focus more intently on specific problems than they could, and they aren't inherently forced to output more garbage.

It's one of the ways in which I find people overwhelmingly misunderstand how LLMs will impact our field. The glut of awful garbage is no different from when people started selling startup 'starter packs' and such; it's just even more accessible and more widespread. There's still no easy or immediate replacement for curiosity, a need for quality, domain knowledge, etc.

I agree that the Deno team exemplifies that and it's why I trust their work for my own work.

Re: Deno 2.9

#57

Post by phaser »

auraham wrote: post #53
phaser wrote: post #36

I am the freaky outlier that's actually excited about this. My city builder game, Microlandia[1], runs on Deno. The game's graphics and UI is a Three.js/React app, but the guts of the game are in a "sidecar" process that is a `deno compile` typescript executable. On Mac, there's a Tauri shell that runs both client and server, and for Linux and Windows we use Electron, (Tauri proved to be quite problematic except when…

> Tauri proved to be quite problematic except when in macOS Can you elaborate?

For Linux, it was an ABI nightmare, the Steam sandbox is based on Debian 11, and glibc/GTK/webkit can't be reliably static-linked to a modern version that Tauri wants. We also ship a stand-alone version in itch.io that doesn't have the limitations of the sandbox but it was a friction point for many players having to figure out how to meet the dependencies.

For Windows, it was a bit less dramatic, but WebView2 is controlled by Windows Update in Windows 10, Some players have it, some players don't. And requiring windows 11 and up is a very unpopular choice. Maybe could have been solved by vendoring it but also not super clean.

I look forward to give it a try again, when Steamworks Linux runtime 4.0 comes around, and less people are still using Windows 10.

Re: Deno 2.9

#58

Post by IshKebab »

someguyiguess wrote: post #21
re-thc wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Rewrite the entire node:http stack to use llhttp (Node.js's HTTP parser) Can we please not turn Deno into junk? If you do the above -- what's the point of Deno? Once you bolt everything on like that you might as well just use Node. Deno started off with its own tools. Bun has managed a good balance between compatibility and its own thing (the recent moves aside) without resorting to these tactics...

> what's the point of Deno? To demonstrate how amazing bun is in comparison.

I dunno it feels like you could say that about Bun these days.

Re: Deno 2.9

#59

Post by bobajeff »

phaser wrote: post #52
bobajeff wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Congrats on your game it reminds me both of SimCity on the SNES and SimCity 2000 (pc). I'm also using a cursed stack (deno + pyodide) and it's awesome! Everything works surprisingly well and I can do my Python experiments in a notebook while hot reloading via vite in a browser + quickly try things in the dev console.

is it also a game? godspeed!

No, it's just a calculator app. So I guess it's not that crazy of a way to use those together but it sure seemed like it would be before I started tried it.
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