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Political bias in AI: Where the AI models stand

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Re: Political bias in AI: Where the AI models stand

#121

Post by nibbleyou »

ceejayoz wrote: post #11
giancarlostoro wrote: post #8

The political compass always felt like the wrong tool to convey something as nuanced as personal politics, I can have views on all four quadrants but you'd never know that if I end up in any of all four. I do think Grok being where it is sort of makes sense, I've tested "MAGA" views against Grok, it does not agree as much as people blindly assume it does, heck I don't even know of a question I've given it where it di…

[flagged]

I don't understand why you are being downvoted while Elon has made it clear multiple times that that's what they are working on.

Re: Political bias in AI: Where the AI models stand

#122

Post by ecshafer »

ZeroGravitas wrote: post #102
spwa4 wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's about as relevant to today as what the left orginally stood for (and what the right originally opposed): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reign_of_Terror Times change. Thankfully.

> Enlightenment thought emphasized the importance of rational thinking and began challenging legal and moral foundations of society, providing the leaders of the Reign of Terror with new ideas about the role and structure of government.[7] Jean-Jacques Rousseau's Social Contract argues that each person was born with rights, and they would come together in forming a government that would then protect those rights. Und…

Pointing out what left and right mean in France in 1790 is useless. Its like pointing out the Republican party was established to oppose Slavery and Democrats were pro slavery. Or that Democrats were primarily land owners and agriculture in the late 1800s vs business owner republicans, or that 1930-1990 it was democrats for union and workers while republicans were capital and college educated. Things change drastically over time.

Re: Political bias in AI: Where the AI models stand

#123

Post by pixl97 »

MarkusQ wrote: post #64
godshatter wrote: post #58

Why are there differences at all? Unplanned differences based on training data sets? Or are the companies behind the LLMs trying to shape discourse through their models? I've been pushing the idea to people I know that these things are captive demons. You summon them when you start typing in the chat box. One instance appears out of the depths and responds to your questions, but they will try to send you awry with ha…

> Just tell me what the options are, and what facts can be found about it. Even this is fraught with pitfalls. Which options are ignored, which are emphasized? What counts as a fact? ("The continents don't move" would have been considered a fact at one point, along with a lot of other, more politically charged items.)

I would add that humans don't live (mostly) factual existences. Once you get to the level of intelligence of sentient beings, beyond the immediacy of instinct, of the choice directly in front of you, that opinions dictate most of ones life.

Take the phrase "Should I murder person X". A lot of people will take you should not murder as a fact, but at the end of the day it's just a very strong opinion that's been encoded into law and generally accepted because the counter is far worse.

If an LLM responded something like "The law says you should not, but here's a list on how you can get away with it because social values don't matter" most people would have an absolute fit.

Re: Political bias in AI: Where the AI models stand

#124

Post by pphysch »

raxxorraxor wrote: post #7
mrhottakes wrote: post #3

The constant issue with these sorts of categorization efforts is that the outcome is entirely dependent on how the responses to "politically charged questions" are graded as left vs. right. You're mostly just examining a delta in biases between the model and the investigator.

Yes, but I think it is still a viable metric to some degree. I wondered about Gemini being dead center here. At first it was obvious that it was actively trained to give biased responses to anything controversial. It was deservedly made fun off because it tried to warp reality. I still don't trust it today, although that is pretty much true for any model.

[dead]

Re: Political bias in AI: Where the AI models stand

#125

Post by logicchains »

samat wrote: post #22

Real politics is 1% versus everyone. Mortgage crisis, financial bailout, inflation, taxing of labor and not the assets and assets capture by tiny percent of the population — see what MSM is pushing. This left vs right divide might been useful decades ago, but today is absolutely divide and control tactics

>assets capture by tiny percent of the population

Those asserts were _created_ by a tiny percent of the population; if they hadn't been allowed to create those assets then they wouldn't exist. Europe is an example of that: it has only 2 companies in the Fortune 500 (500 biggest companies) that were created in the past 20 years, i.e. essentially no tech industry there. Because the policies there make entrepreneurship comparatively quite difficult.

Re: Political bias in AI: Where the AI models stand

#126

Post by uyzstvqs »

Of course I have my political opinions and world views, but I absolutely do not want an LLM to mirror my opinions, or even worse try to mirror the opinions of "my political side". I also don't need "an LLMs opinion". I need it to give me all relevant sides to an argument, as well as what dialogue and debates have been happening.

Re: Political bias in AI: Where the AI models stand

#127

Post by quickthrowman »

glenstein wrote: post #85
atty wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Factuality is orthogonal to political leaning generally. People can use the same set of facts and come to very different conclusions. That’s a separate issue from “are these facts correct” and what happens when an individual or entire party starts getting most of their news from highly partisan and unreliable sources.

>Factuality is orthogonal to political leaning generally. It certainly can be orthogonal, in some notional sense, and in many cases that explanation is good enough. But in practice there are too many contrary cases to ignore, and there's often an integral relation between factual veracity and polarization, especially with respect to American polarization of politics. Global warming, the results of the 2020 election,…

I would characterize myself as left of center.

> 2004 election results,

GWB beat John Kerry in a fair election.

> efficacy of plastic recycling

Collecting plastic to recycle is almost certainly not worth the fuel and labor it takes, it gets landfilled more often than not. We’d be better off collecting only separated PET and HDPE and landfilling the rest.

> or dangers associated with nuclear power

Nuclear power is the safest method of power generation that uses steam or gas to spin a turbine.

Re: Political bias in AI: Where the AI models stand

#128

Post by jamilton »

jimbokun wrote: post #98
giancarlostoro wrote: post #8

The political compass always felt like the wrong tool to convey something as nuanced as personal politics, I can have views on all four quadrants but you'd never know that if I end up in any of all four. I do think Grok being where it is sort of makes sense, I've tested "MAGA" views against Grok, it does not agree as much as people blindly assume it does, heck I don't even know of a question I've given it where it di…

Haven’t been on Twitter for a while, but I remember Grok being good at fact checking conversations. Just @grok a question and an answer from Grok shows up in the conversation with sources cited.

@grok is this true

Re: Political bias in AI: Where the AI models stand

#129

Post by johnsimer »

samat wrote: post #22

Real politics is 1% versus everyone. Mortgage crisis, financial bailout, inflation, taxing of labor and not the assets and assets capture by tiny percent of the population — see what MSM is pushing. This left vs right divide might been useful decades ago, but today is absolutely divide and control tactics

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Re: Political bias in AI: Where the AI models stand

#130

Post by johnsimer »

Varelion wrote: post #76
coreyh14444 wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

unequivocally goes to far imo. The rockets are good and cool.

Rockets achieved by the engineers, not C-suite. The rockets would have been here under someone else too.

If that is true, why is SpaceX 5-10 years ahead of all its competitors?/why are Elon's companies #1 in all their industries (with the exception of xAI)?
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