Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Digital euro clears key hurdle as EU seeks to break free from U.S. credit cards

finance.yahoo.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

381–386 of 386 posts

Re: Digital euro clears key hurdle as EU seeks to break free from U.S. credit cards

#381

Post by raron »

insane_dreamer wrote: post #371
raron wrote: post #280

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The difference is more a financial or legal thing, than a technical one. From an users' perspective paying with digital Euro would work more-or-less the same as you pay today with card, bank transfer or something based on QR codes. But it will have very different guarantees and trusts behind the scene. Today you don't really think about keeping your money in a bank and paying with card as a different thing than havin…

thanks, that makes sense. seems to mostly be a question of giving the ECB more control at the expense of the banks?

Some people argue that it is just for more government surveillance and control, but the government already could access your bank and card transactions and freeze or confiscate your money.

Re: Digital euro clears key hurdle as EU seeks to break free from U.S. credit cards

#382

Post by mlyons1340 »

Kuinox wrote: post #379
margalabargala wrote: post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In your rush to dunk on Americans you misunderstood the comment. Everyone in America is perfectly aware that the "dispute" button exists. Trouble is, the lag time between hitting the button and getting your money back can be weeks. With a credit card you are out zero money.

> the lag time between hitting the button and getting your money back can be weeks. Nope, it's as soon as the bank is aware. In your rush to correct me, you failed to understand that there are simply better customers protection here which make a product such as a credit card mostly useless.

Not beating the pretentious European stereotype.

Re: Digital euro clears key hurdle as EU seeks to break free from U.S. credit cards

#383

Post by Telaneo »

lxgr wrote: post #148
__rito__ wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is Wero something you can hold in your hands? RuPay is just like Visa/Mastercard in the sense you get physical cards that you can use at ATMs, use at ecomm sites, etc. Wero doesn’t seem to be that. Am I missing something? Does making a new direct alternative to Visa/MC doesn’t make sense for the EU? If so, why?

Cards (as implemented in the US at least, i.e., with individual purchases not confirmed by the cardholder) are a relic of a different time in many ways. If you're building out a brand new system, why not make use of the computing device with input/output capabilities (that can be used to confirm amount, payee etc.) almost everybody already has in their pocket/purse anyway and instead rely on merchants being honest an…

> If you're building out a brand new system, why not make use of the computing device with input/output capabilities (that can be used to confirm amount, payee etc.) almost everybody already has in their pocket/purse anyway and instead rely on merchants being honest and only taking what they're owed out of your account without your confirmation?

Because I'd like to be able to pay for things even if my phone is out of battery. I'd also like my grandma to be able to pay for stuff without bringing her phone to the store.

Don't get me wrong, I like being able to pay with just my phone. But I'd like a fallback option (in theory, cash is this too, and I do carry that, but it's used to rarely these days).

Re: Digital euro clears key hurdle as EU seeks to break free from U.S. credit cards

#384

Post by mdp2021 »

dewey wrote: post #360
mdp2021 wrote: post #306

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> perfect [as] the enemy of good In real critical systems, that seldom happens. Satisficing is the recipe for disaster. The current disastrous "world" is built on imperfect systems, "what could possibly go wrong" style. It takes full work to create an acceptable instrument. You are mentioning an improvement over credit cards - we would like to have a payment system acceptable by - say, the more "attentive", "discrimi…

Can you say that a bit more clearly? What's your practical suggestion?

Contextually, clearly, "widely accepted electronic money with privacy" - as since a few years I cannot make transactions online as all the decent ways are gone.

You cannot call "perfect being the enemy of good" something like "the former solution punched you in the face, this punches in the guts" - it's still "punches".

The contextual solution from the eu only affects those who accepted those credit cards - and already that is a special (while overwhelming) chunk of the population, since today they are mostly those who accepted NFC on financial cards (we don't).

In general, "perfect" is required - because today "acceptable" is not granted and it is crucial part of the details.

Re: Digital euro clears key hurdle as EU seeks to break free from U.S. credit cards

#385

Post by hedgedoops2 »

margalabargala wrote: post #380
Kuinox wrote: post #379

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the lag time between hitting the button and getting your money back can be weeks. Nope, it's as soon as the bank is aware. In your rush to correct me, you failed to understand that there are simply better customers protection here which make a product such as a credit card mostly useless.

Big if true.

Pretty sure that debit chargebacks lead to an instant credit (by regulation).

I'm almost tempted to test it right now but I am pretty sure I did this once and it took under 1 day

Ok now I asked a chatbot for how this is regulated. The answer was wrong as expected but it happened to mention the applicable regulation which can be looked up at gesezte-im-internet.de

§ 675u BGB - requires immediate credit for unauthorized card payments

§ 675x BGB - chargeback in 10 days for direct debit transactions (lastschrift)

https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/bgb/__675x.html

I guess this is just germany but I vagely remember a payment processor eu directive that this is probably implementing (PSD)

-> Yes. It is article 73 and 76 of PSD

https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/HTML/?uri=CEL...

So this holds EU wide for all banks.

This was literally 15 mins of googling (well duckduck ing) on the train.

Now there still could be counterveiling evidence and ianal etc, so use grain of salt. Gotta get off now.

Re: Digital euro clears key hurdle as EU seeks to break free from U.S. credit cards

#386

Post by tlogan »

rsynnott wrote: post #377
tlogan wrote: post #361

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Without those, why bother? Peace of mind (that your checking account is not drained)?

How would that happen? Chip and pin has been mandatory for years, as is 3dsecure.

That is not going to help if:

- someone steals your card and PIN

- the merchant turns out to be dishonest (or some misunderstanding) and you want you money back

- you fall for fraud

- the merchant mistakenly charges you, causing an overdraft on your checking account

Post reply on HN