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Ford AI hiccups push carmaker to rehire ‘gray beard’ inspectors

bloomberg.com

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Re: Ford AI hiccups push carmaker to rehire ‘gray beard’ inspectors

#231

Post by neilv »

teiferer wrote: post #178
boutell wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We all know what you mean. But doing what is necessary to make the overall automated system more autonomous = training, at this 30,000 foot altitude.

Well for grandma on the street I can accept that, but shouldn't at least the tech community be more precise in terminology? "AI" is also a misnomer. So many things in our industry are that it always takes some layers of digging in a new area to understand what they actually mean because the words have shifted their meaning.

I intended for the entire sentence to be in terms of the thinking of top leadership.

And to gloss over how that improvement would actually happen. (Not knowing what they've currently done and want to do, but for example, guessing: probably in partnership with vendors, consultants, etc., iterative and experimental process and tools improvements, and involving a variety of approaches and refinements.)

Re: Ford AI hiccups push carmaker to rehire ‘gray beard’ inspectors

#232

Post by burnte »

dsjoerg wrote: post #196
burnte wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why are you assuming this? Because Bloomberg didn’t report the execs’ performance reviews? Maybe they did face consequences and we just don’t know. Because we've been alive in America long enough to see this cycle thousands of times. The execs rarely face the music for bad decisions. A round of layoffs looks like a failure to us, but to the investors it was a good idea that didn't work out so there's no punishment…

If you allow a likely guess with no evidence to play the role of fact, you're just as bad as the AIs

That's true, but I literally mentioned the decades of experience we've all lived through, so it's not without data. When the guys who made the bad decisions are still at the company and giving interviews then that's a very strong indicator they're still there and not facing repercussions.

Re: Ford AI hiccups push carmaker to rehire ‘gray beard’ inspectors

#233

Post by buran77 »

mothballed wrote: post #216
jm4 wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Generally, you don’t want to punish people for making decisions. At least I don’t. I value people who are willing to try things and I generally believe any decision made in good faith is better than no decision. My litmus test is was it a reasonable decision given the information available at the time in service of a greater goal. I can live with the consequences of that. If it turns out to be a not so great decision…

Society is incredibly inconsistent on this point. If a CEO shit-cans 500 people who sacrificed future career prospects for the company and end up destitute, society say's that's capitalism and they need to learn to code in a month or something. If a stay at home wife gets "bored" and divorces her husband of 20 years, he commonly owes her a decade+ of alimony to "make up for the sacrifice and time to get on her feet"…

> As usual it's communism for the plebs and something entirely different for the capital wielding class.

Bad example. Ask Bezos how much he paid his wife after the divorce.

Re: Ford AI hiccups push carmaker to rehire ‘gray beard’ inspectors

#234

Post by failuser »

eunos wrote: post #74
khriss wrote: post #57

Interestingly, there were no consequences for the execs that made this 'mistake'. There seems to be almost unlimited cover for execs cargo culting on using AI as a pretext for layoffs. If it doesn't implode almost immediately, they get massive bonuses, if it blows up in their face, oh well they had the courage to 'take a bold strategic decision' In other words, they don't really have a plan, but they are happy playin…

The social contract that American society elect (including these non executive engineers) emphasize career flexibility (right-to-work) and returns of capital than job security. Especially during booming economic years.

Career flexibility like Do Not Compete agreements?

Re: Ford AI hiccups push carmaker to rehire ‘gray beard’ inspectors

#235

Post by cucumber3732842 »

mrandish wrote: post #213
WarmWash wrote: post #136

Ford has hired 350 engineers over the last 3 years which happened alongside short comings in using AI inspection tooling. This has nothing to do with LLMs and instead is almost certainly about their MAIVIS and AiTriz pilots, which use old school CNNs on custom IBM hardware to do visual inspections.

Yes, it seems like many are missing the crucial aspect of the timing. The mistake was realized 3 years ago and auto design and manufacturing process lead times are long . Plus the occasion for the story was 'Ford returning to the top of the JD Power Quality Survey rankings', so that's another 6-18 months of reporting lag. That puts the original layoff mistakes being made 5 to 8 years ago. I don't know when the "MAIVI…

>Yes, it seems like many are missing the crucial aspect of the timing.

First day on the internet propaganda-discourse machine?

If the article doesn't support your preconceived biases that's no problem, assume the title is true on it's face and comment reinforcing it. If neither of them support you then attack them. Welcome to internet comment sections.

Re: Ford AI hiccups push carmaker to rehire ‘gray beard’ inspectors

#237

Post by shwaj »

mothballed wrote: post #216
jm4 wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Generally, you don’t want to punish people for making decisions. At least I don’t. I value people who are willing to try things and I generally believe any decision made in good faith is better than no decision. My litmus test is was it a reasonable decision given the information available at the time in service of a greater goal. I can live with the consequences of that. If it turns out to be a not so great decision…

Society is incredibly inconsistent on this point. If a CEO shit-cans 500 people who sacrificed future career prospects for the company and end up destitute, society say's that's capitalism and they need to learn to code in a month or something. If a stay at home wife gets "bored" and divorces her husband of 20 years, he commonly owes her a decade+ of alimony to "make up for the sacrifice and time to get on her feet"…

I don’t think society is a monolith. Many of those who support your proverbial alimony are also against CEOs acting with impunity.

Re: Ford AI hiccups push carmaker to rehire ‘gray beard’ inspectors

#238

Post by [deleted] »

tandr wrote: post #223
helterskelter wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the topic of Stellantis, I rented one recently (through no fault of my own) and when I returned it the guy asked me how it was. I told him I wouldn't drive one of those things again if they paid me, and the guy said "yeah we get that a lot, let me get you the discount". It sounded like they had a "Stellantis discount" for people who said something. Nice guy, actually.

As far as I can see on Wikipedia page or homepage for Stellantis, they do not make cars under their own name. So, which brand did you rent actually?

[deleted]

Re: Ford AI hiccups push carmaker to rehire ‘gray beard’ inspectors

#239

Post by markus_zhang »

jm4 wrote: post #193
khriss wrote: post #57

Interestingly, there were no consequences for the execs that made this 'mistake'. There seems to be almost unlimited cover for execs cargo culting on using AI as a pretext for layoffs. If it doesn't implode almost immediately, they get massive bonuses, if it blows up in their face, oh well they had the courage to 'take a bold strategic decision' In other words, they don't really have a plan, but they are happy playin…

Generally, you don’t want to punish people for making decisions. At least I don’t. I value people who are willing to try things and I generally believe any decision made in good faith is better than no decision. My litmus test is was it a reasonable decision given the information available at the time in service of a greater goal. I can live with the consequences of that. If it turns out to be a not so great decision…

IMO that’s what used to be “accountability”, especially for decision makers.

Re: Ford AI hiccups push carmaker to rehire ‘gray beard’ inspectors

#240

Post by stale2002 »

failuser wrote: post #234
eunos wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The social contract that American society elect (including these non executive engineers) emphasize career flexibility (right-to-work) and returns of capital than job security. Especially during booming economic years.

Career flexibility like Do Not Compete agreements?

Almost nobody is covered by non compete agreements. And if you think you are, you should just ignore it anyway.

They are often both illegal and unenforced. Your old employer isn't going to waste time hiring a private detective to track down every former employee's new work place that you didn't include on LinkedIn.

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