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Anthropic says Alibaba illicitly extracted Claude AI model capabilities

reuters.com

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Re: Anthropic says Alibaba illicitly extracted Claude AI model capabilities

#711

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> These complaints of distillation are inflating the problem to make it sound worse than it is Unfortunately, the Reuters piece itself is complicit in this dramatization. The lede paragraph parrots Anthropic's talking point that distillation is an "attack", without using quotes that would alert the reader that this framing is a corporate talking point. Distillation is NOT an attack.

Anthropic raped everyone without asking and stole their labor to build their career-commoditizing tech. Distillation is Robin Hooding it back so that one trillion dollar company doesn't reap all the benefits of their automation of the workforce. Distillation is Prometheus bringing fire from the gods to give to ordinary humans. Something we all own anyway, but that was kept from us. Distillation is freedom. Everyone s…

Eaaaaasy now, the Chinese labs aren't freedom fighters on behalf the common man. They're not non-profits, they're not neutral transnational organizations only dedicated to open source efforts.

They're Chinese companies offering open source models now as loss leaders to keep themselves in the game because they know virtually nobody, especially in the corporate world, would contract with them and give them access to their data. They might as well just send a Dropbox link of all their sensitive data directly to their Chinese competitors, same end effect.

They're also doing it as the digital equivalent of what they've done in other industrial sectors for decades. Undercut and flood the market and once you've killed or severely hindered your competition, then you have the market cornered. The moment they can afford to these open source releases will stop.

Then the world will be stuck, just the way the world is largely stuck on rare earths. Instead of being able to regulate the leading companies from DC and Brussels, they'll be stuck watching Beijing call the shots.

That world would likely always have guys like Mistral and Trinity, but it's an open question if they'll ever catch up to the frontier.

And then Beijing will enjoy access to the data (ask any multinational operating in China for more than 2 seconds how useful contracts and Chinas legal system is for protecting IP), and these companies will roll in the money, and the Chinese supply chain will grow up behind the labs.

So, let's not pretend they've got the moral high ground. No. That boot just isn't on your neck yet. They're playing the long game -- and they're good at it.

Re: Anthropic says Alibaba illicitly extracted Claude AI model capabilities

#712

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Supposedly the details of the ‘jailbreak’ are that you give it insecure code and say “fix this code”, and it does, and then you ask it for test scripts and that’s effectively an exploit against the unfixed code. If true then I have no idea how anyone’s going to release a useful model that doesn’t have the same jailbreak. https://www.theregister.com/security/2026/06/15/feds-freaked...

If that's the extent of the jailbreak, then the government should have banned every existing LLM - their story only makes sense if there's some Fable-specific capability that got unlocked.

There’s no logic to it, blocking fable was retaliation and market manipulation by the current admin, nothing more. Poorly conceived as well.

Re: Anthropic says Alibaba illicitly extracted Claude AI model capabilities

#713
post #174

Here's what is happening: Chinese resellers are offering Claude tokens at 70-90% below official Anthropic API prices. They achieve this by reselling capacity from pooled Claude Max accounts, payments fraud, and also reselling the model output & reasoning chains to various Chinese labs. They are subsidizing model access in exchange for user logs and reasoning traces, which they then sell as training data, allowing the…

Where are you getting cheap GLM5.2? It is about 1/3 the price of Opus, which is not what I would call cheap.

a company can just download GLM 5.2 and start self hosting this model using the chip designed and made by itself. That could lower the cost by 20-30x.

for hobbyist buying a few Mac Studio to host GLM 5.2 at home, the cost might 10x more than just using Opus API.

Re: Anthropic says Alibaba illicitly extracted Claude AI model capabilities

#715

Here's what is happening: Chinese resellers are offering Claude tokens at 70-90% below official Anthropic API prices. They achieve this by reselling capacity from pooled Claude Max accounts, payments fraud, and also reselling the model output & reasoning chains to various Chinese labs. They are subsidizing model access in exchange for user logs and reasoning traces, which they then sell as training data, allowing the…

I think companies should do this too, in a smaller scale. Proxy all LLM traffic to and from your employees, and use it to fine tune a smaller local model.

Re: Anthropic says Alibaba illicitly extracted Claude AI model capabilities

#716

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The AI companies seem to take the viewpoint that everything on the internet is free, except their stuff. It's okay to hammer some random website with AI crawlers, ignoring robots.txt, and causing bandwidth costs to skyrocket. But if you cost an AI provider money with your data acquisition practices, well, that's just clearly unacceptable.

That's one aspect, which is a bit of a gray zone. But Anthropic trained on pirated books. That is explicitly illegal.

so did Meta for Llama.

The entire chat thread and email exchange was exposed in Discovery; apparently Zuck signed off on it. In one of the IM exchanges one of them say ‘everyone is doing it’

https://x.com/jason_kint/status/1879152507865485497?s=20

Re: Anthropic says Alibaba illicitly extracted Claude AI model capabilities

#717
post #711

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anthropic raped everyone without asking and stole their labor to build their career-commoditizing tech. Distillation is Robin Hooding it back so that one trillion dollar company doesn't reap all the benefits of their automation of the workforce. Distillation is Prometheus bringing fire from the gods to give to ordinary humans. Something we all own anyway, but that was kept from us. Distillation is freedom. Everyone s…

Eaaaaasy now, the Chinese labs aren't freedom fighters on behalf the common man. They're not non-profits, they're not neutral transnational organizations only dedicated to open source efforts. They're Chinese companies offering open source models now as loss leaders to keep themselves in the game because they know virtually nobody, especially in the corporate world, would contract with them and give them access to th…

It doesn't matter why Chinese firms are stealing models and open sourcing them. The fact that they are doing it is a very, very good thing for basically everyone other than the people who paid to build the original models, but I've got no sympathy for them considering they stole all the content to train them in the first place. This is some kind of beautiful irony.

Re: Anthropic says Alibaba illicitly extracted Claude AI model capabilities

#718
This is like a Gardner complaining that you watch him as he works to learn his craft. My dude you do not have to take the job, but most people just accept it as the way the world works. If they feel like they do not want to serve the Chinese they can do that on their own, why do they need the government?

Re: Anthropic says Alibaba illicitly extracted Claude AI model capabilities

#719
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you meant a quote attributed to Bill Gates: "Well, Steve, I think there's more than one way of looking at it. I think it's more like we both had this rich neighbor named Xerox and I broke into his house to steal the TV set and found out that you had already stolen it."

I thought Xerox demoed something they haven’t implemented yet, and Apple turned a mockup into a real GUI.

They implemented it. They just couldn't get out of their own way to successfully sell it (See "Dealer's of Lightning"[0])

0 - https://www.amazon.com/Dealers-Lightning-Xerox-PARC-Computer...

Re: Anthropic says Alibaba illicitly extracted Claude AI model capabilities

#720
post #55
post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If Anthropic is selling a dollar for less than a dollar, they are running a business that doesn't make sense. That's what jeopardizes Claude Max, not this.

But if it's intended to be used by one person, it seems like breaking the contract by sublicensing it out to dozens of other people. It's like buying a netflix subscription for $15, then sublicensing it on a per-hour basis to dozens of other people.

That kind of mentality never works in business.

Bear in mind that for years people shared Netflix accounts until it was cracked down technically.

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