Wikipedia Workers to Seek Union Recognition • Hacker News Board

Re: Wikipedia Workers to Seek Union Recognition

#141

Post by thunderbird120 » Thu, Jun 25, 2026, 10:29 AM UTC

RandomLensman wrote: post #89

throwaway93135 wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Imagine how high must those salaries be in union-prolific Euro nations, compared to the measly ones of those uncivilized Americans!

Hourly wages in Germany are not that different from the US. Depends a bit on how exactly to compare - nominal, PPP, net/gross, etc.: e.g., average nominal is about 10% higher in the US, real median is higher in Germnay, ...

>median is higher in Germnay

I cannot think of any standard by which this is true, certainly not by nominal or PPP income for either personal or household income.

[1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Median_income

[2]https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/median-in...

Re: Wikipedia Workers to Seek Union Recognition

#142

Post by RandomLensman » Thu, Jun 25, 2026, 10:30 AM UTC

throwaway93135 wrote: post #125

RandomLensman wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hourly wages in Germany are not that different from the US. Depends a bit on how exactly to compare - nominal, PPP, net/gross, etc.: e.g., average nominal is about 10% higher in the US, real median is higher in Germnay, ...

Overlooking that we are comparing the richest EU state to all 50 US states, doesn't that further the point that having unions is are at best uninfluential.

No. (And comparing one country to another seems fine anyway.) Hard to make the case that unions in Germany have had no effects on wages, working time, etc.

Re: Wikipedia Workers to Seek Union Recognition

#143

Post by iamacyborg » Thu, Jun 25, 2026, 10:32 AM UTC

6LLvveMx2koXfwn wrote: post #136

mytailorisrich wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fact that unions played a big role in the past does not imply that they are as important now because of the changes in legal protection, types of jobs, and society.

If you believe the legal protections in place as a direct result of the labour movement (of which Unions are just one part) will remain in place in the face of constant well funded opposition by Capital then I have a case study for you in the UK, we call them Zero Hours Contracts.

Another UK example, you effectively have very limited rights until you’ve worked for a company for 2 years. Before then they can fire you for any reason they care to.

Re: Wikipedia Workers to Seek Union Recognition

#144

Post by hulahoof » Thu, Jun 25, 2026, 10:34 AM UTC

Whatever happened to the deepmind union effort ?

Re: Wikipedia Workers to Seek Union Recognition

#145

Post by tovej » Thu, Jun 25, 2026, 10:34 AM UTC

throwaway93135 wrote: post #125

RandomLensman wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hourly wages in Germany are not that different from the US. Depends a bit on how exactly to compare - nominal, PPP, net/gross, etc.: e.g., average nominal is about 10% higher in the US, real median is higher in Germnay, ...

Overlooking that we are comparing the richest EU state to all 50 US states, doesn't that further the point that having unions is are at best uninfluential.

Real wages are higher in every EU country with strong unions.

Re: Wikipedia Workers to Seek Union Recognition

#146

Post by HugoTea » Thu, Jun 25, 2026, 10:34 AM UTC

chobeat wrote: post #107

JdeBP wrote: post #90

This is the same press release from the union as at https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48663861 , and the same discussion points apply as there, including the fact that the press release is conflating 'Wikipedia Workers' and 'British-based employees at the Wikimedia Foundation'. The two are not the same. This conflation appears to be the fault of the union. Certainly the people who write Wikipedia well know the dif…

There's a union of wikipedia editors being formed and they are in alliance with the US and UK Wikimedia union. More public statements will follow in the next weeks about this.

Very exciting good luck to them all

Re: Wikipedia Workers to Seek Union Recognition

#147

Post by RandomLensman » Thu, Jun 25, 2026, 10:37 AM UTC

thunderbird120 wrote: post #141

RandomLensman wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hourly wages in Germany are not that different from the US. Depends a bit on how exactly to compare - nominal, PPP, net/gross, etc.: e.g., average nominal is about 10% higher in the US, real median is higher in Germnay, ...

>median is higher in Germnay I cannot think of any standard by which this is true, certainly not by nominal or PPP income for either personal or household income. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Median_income [2] https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/median-in...

Table on page 10: https://www.boeckler.de/data/downloads/IMK/FMM%20Konferenz%2...

Not looking at households or disposable income here but at hourly wages.

Re: Wikipedia Workers to Seek Union Recognition

#148

Post by mytailorisrich » Thu, Jun 25, 2026, 10:38 AM UTC

tovej wrote: post #137

mytailorisrich wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fact that unions played a big role in the past does not imply that they are as important now because of the changes in legal protection, types of jobs, and society.

Those legal protections are easily eroded without unions. Just look at Finland. Here, the current government first made it illegal for unions to strike when the government takes action to weaken employment law, and then they significantly weakened employment law. The only protection left is collective bargaining agreements, which can still uphold some of the old legal protections through contract law. This was also o…

> Those legal protections are easily eroded without unions.

That's very clearly not true based on the situation in Western Europe, in fact legal rights tend to keep increasing even when union membership is decreasing (e.g. UK, France).

As said, jobs and society as a whole have evolved and noone can be elected in government by promising to take away important protections, what they can be elected on is promising to curb union power but that the unions' fault when they abuse striking action.

My understanding is that workers are extremely well protected in Finland and what's happened is only some restrictions on political and solidarity strikes.

Edit: Unions are not the only defense that workers have. We have democracy with all sides represented and nowadays (in Europe at least) more is done through elections than through unions. That's why I said that society had changed compared to the early days of the labour movement.

Re: Wikipedia Workers to Seek Union Recognition

#149

Post by mytailorisrich » Thu, Jun 25, 2026, 10:41 AM UTC

6LLvveMx2koXfwn wrote: post #136

mytailorisrich wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fact that unions played a big role in the past does not imply that they are as important now because of the changes in legal protection, types of jobs, and society.

If you believe the legal protections in place as a direct result of the labour movement (of which Unions are just one part) will remain in place in the face of constant well funded opposition by Capital then I have a case study for you in the UK, we call them Zero Hours Contracts.

Zero hours contracts were never banned in the UK and in fact have been restricted over the years and debate is still ongoing on whether to ban them altogether.

We have diverged significantly from my original point...

Re: Wikipedia Workers to Seek Union Recognition

#150

Post by tovej » Thu, Jun 25, 2026, 10:41 AM UTC

changoplatanero wrote: post #114

Frieren wrote: post #56

There is no reason for any employee to not search for unionization. It is your right and it is in your best interest. Good for them.

What’s in the collective best interest may not match with what’s in the individual best interest. Perhaps unions are more likely to be in the self interest of the below average employees, the ones with no negotiating power. The best school teachers are almost certainly being held back by their unions and the worst ones are getting a free pass. When I worked at a unionized place I was blocked from an opportunity my em…

For me, the only one who has ever used the standard terms as a floor has been the employer. The union has always backed me up when I wanted higher pay.

I'll give an example. I've had managers switched on me, and they've then said my salary has to be reduced because it's higher than the median. The organisation I work for also has a salary policy where every level you advance, your "personal additional percentage" is cut. This eventually reduces everyone to the same, lower level. This is the employer, not the union.

The union, otoh, backed me up when I wanted to keep my existing extra percentage.