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GLM-5.2 is a step change for open agents

interconnects.ai

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Re: GLM-5.2 is a step change for open agents

#151

Post by RugnirViking »

brian-armstrong wrote: post #106
jerojero wrote: post #3

Open weight models from Chinese labs tend to be significantly cheaper. I think theyre absolutely needed. I can't afford 200 USD a month for personal use of coding AI, and I don't think such prices are reasonable for most of the world economy anyway. Not to mention US firms might be giving their employees a lot more than that. It's increasingly feeling, to me, that theres a gap building up between haves and have nots.…

I read these stories and I can never figure out how people are managing to use these $200 plans. If I really go full bore, I can sometimes max out the $20 plan. Even then, it already produces more code than I can reasonably review and merge.

do you do it for a job (8 hours a day)? and do you work in large, mature projects (more than 5 team members)? A big part of it is dealing with frankly terrible architecture and 15 people's different ideas of how things should work (and the spam theyve been able to do with their own agents makes this worse)

Re: GLM-5.2 is a step change for open agents

#152

Post by SyneRyder »

kreelman wrote: post #80
fbrncci wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My costs are 0$ as any token or subscription spend on agents is invoiced as an expense to my clients.

Thanks so much for being bold enough to be fairly open about the costs, how you arrange billing and the advantages that's given you. I've been fooling around with DeepSeek 4 agentically. It's probably not as good as Anthropic offerings, but even those seem to be roiled in politics and strife and DeepSeek 4 is very good IMHO. I'll later try out GLM. I'm in Australia. The government has set up a "return and earn" schem…

> There is probably a market for Deepseek/GLM served from non CCP available servers. I might even look into how hard that would be to setup here.

Please do. There is definitely a market for Deepseek / GLM hosted from non-China servers, there's over 20 providers for GLM 5.2 on OpenRouter alone... and they're all either Singapore (home of Z.AI / GLM), China, or US. There is nothing yet listed on OpenRouter from Europe (Inceptron still only has GLM 5.1). And of course, there is absolutely nothing hosted in Australia.

We're in a particularly dire situation in Australia. We're about to be cut off from Claude Fable and premium American models. The European Mistral models are garbage, at least in comparison to US models. Our only hope is going to be Chinese models (GLM 5.2 is good), and we're not even hosting them in Australia.

By the way, if you haven't tried an Anthropic model, it's worth spending at least $20 one month to give Opus 4.8 a try. I only got one night of access to Fable before I was cut off, but one single evening of Fable provided plans that I've been working through for about a week afterwards with Opus 4.8... and that was only Fable, not even Mythos. That's the kind of intelligence lead Australia is about to be cut off from.

(And kudos on the Containers For Change, that's something I do as well - mostly as an exercise incentive to walk to the local recycling machine, because the money certainly doesn't compensate for the time spent on the recycling.)

Re: GLM-5.2 is a step change for open agents

#153

Post by RugnirViking »

nunodonato wrote: post #132
christophilus wrote: post #47

I've been working with Deepseek V4 Flash (with opencode as the harness). It's been almost indistinguishable from Codex / Claude Code for me. I'm sure I'll run into problems when I get to a stickier ticket to tackle. But so far, it's been quite good, and I find it writes straightforward code. I do think the Chinese models are good enough for an 80/20 rule use case.

it would be a really great option if it didn't lack vision

what do you use vision for? I have failed to find a workflow with it that makes sense, asking it to review screenshots of websites or whatever it misses extremely obvious details like text flowing out of it's container/overlapping other text, things being in entirely the wrong place, etc.

Re: GLM-5.2 is a step change for open agents

#154

Post by RugnirViking »

rainmaking wrote: post #25
wuhhh wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your post made me laugh because I experienced the same as you but the other way around. I switched from Claude to a multi model harness a couple of days ago and the first model I tried was GLM5.2. I gave it some simple code porting exercises and watched dumbfounded at the reasoning, which was more like the ravings of a lunatic - but lo and behold, after much confusion and a dizzying number of eureka moments the task…

Yeah isn't that thinking weird? Now I see the issue clearly! But wait... now I have the full picture! But wait... Found it! I gave up a few times because of it at first until I realized I just had to let GLM get on with it and what came out was great! But once it was outright endearing- challenging bug, it said: I have been very thorough. Then it escalated where to look and aced it. Built in confucian values

I'm like 90% sure the harnesses inject those tokens into the ai to make them check their work. Things like "but wait" and "but what if..." etc. Like literally inserting them artificially and then say "carry on from here" to the ai so it's working as though it itself output those words so the ai has an opportunity to turn around if its making a mistake. repeat a bunch of times and we get something useful.

I started noticing those in gh copilot right around when they turned off thinking traces end of last year

Re: GLM-5.2 is a step change for open agents

#155

Post by narrator »

jerojero wrote: post #3

Open weight models from Chinese labs tend to be significantly cheaper. I think theyre absolutely needed. I can't afford 200 USD a month for personal use of coding AI, and I don't think such prices are reasonable for most of the world economy anyway. Not to mention US firms might be giving their employees a lot more than that. It's increasingly feeling, to me, that theres a gap building up between haves and have nots.…

The tokens cost the same everywhere on earth. This does hurt some cost advantages of outsourcing when tokens start to become a bigger part of development costs.

Re: GLM-5.2 is a step change for open agents

#158

Post by Sammi »

lanthissa wrote: post #137
fbrncci wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You made me realize something. I routinely spend upwards of 500$ per month on LLMs for coding (expensed towards clients). However I live in a place where 500$ is around the avg. salary. I’m lucky that I know my way around western clients. Clients who pay these expenses and are happy to work with me because I am still about 50% cheaper than local talent in EU/US, while my salary at home converts to an upper class inco…

AI is the first technology that doesn't incentivize offshoring, and incentivizes co-location of talent. A NYC dev and a dev in india have the same ai costs, based the ratio tokens/salary it becomes less of comparative disadvantage to be in NYC. Now combine that with the fact that AI makes the act of generating code less a % time of the job, and the ability to get/refine requirements more of the job and you have a dec…

Errr you just responded to someone that is offshore and is using AI to be much cheaper than local talent.

Re: GLM-5.2 is a step change for open agents

#159

Post by solarkraft »

christophilus wrote: post #47

I've been working with Deepseek V4 Flash (with opencode as the harness). It's been almost indistinguishable from Codex / Claude Code for me. I'm sure I'll run into problems when I get to a stickier ticket to tackle. But so far, it's been quite good, and I find it writes straightforward code. I do think the Chinese models are good enough for an 80/20 rule use case.

I use Pro because I’m insensitive to the price difference, but also found Flash very capable in OpenCode.

Re: GLM-5.2 is a step change for open agents

#160

Post by baq »

matheusmoreira wrote: post #55
Fr0styMatt88 wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If we can agree that the AI model is at least as capable as a junior engineer or new contractor, how’s that different to saying “software engineering isn’t worth $200 a month”? Has a very race-to-the-bottom feel to it. Though in the grand scheme of it, $200/mo probably isn’t the real price either. Also looking at it not just in a vacuum - paying for a product that can change what you get from under you doesn’t seem g…

Yeah. There's no way to verify what these providers are doing. The real future is running these models at home. Opus level inference on our own hardware would be a dream come true.

I dream of having an LLM in a box over usb bought off AliExpress for a year and change now.

The LLM in a box is something you can buy today, but it 1. doesn’t serve over usb by default 2. costs $100k for hardware (not counting electricity) at 100 tps 3. can’t buy this from AliExpress.

Better to put that $100k in t-bills and just buy tokens even at api prices.

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