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"Fix" MacBook Neo Cursor Lag: Record 1 Pixel of the Screen Every 10 Seconds

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Re: "Fix" MacBook Neo Cursor Lag: Record 1 Pixel of the Screen Every 10 Seconds

#101

Post by InsideOutSanta »

DonHopkins wrote: post #90
pmontra wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you forgot the /s Anyway, interesting story. I didn't know what a key window is. I googled. It's the active window.

Sssssh!!! I was deadpanning respect for him in the hopes that Meta will keep him long enough to inflict as much damage as possible. TLDR: >It’s rather extraordinary in today’s hyper-partisan world that there’s nearly universal agreement amongst actual practitioners of user-interface design that Alan Dye is a fraud who led the company deeply astray. >My favorite reaction to today’s news is this one-liner from a guy on…

> I was deadpanning respect for him in the hopes that Meta will keep him long enough to inflict as much damage as possible.

Oh, yes, of course. We all remember the great Alan Dye as the genius who made Apple the global success it is today and made the design of its operating systems beloved worldwide. Truly a giant amongst men, a genius of the sort that hasn't been seen since Leonardo DaVinci, and more beautiful than Brad Pitt in his prime.

Meta is lucky to have him and should immediately do everything he says without even a hint of hesitation.

Re: "Fix" MacBook Neo Cursor Lag: Record 1 Pixel of the Screen Every 10 Seconds

#102

Post by eviks »

fragmede wrote: post #95
thewebguyd wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its also one of the most immediately visible degradations of user experience. The cursor is your agent to interact with the computer, an extension of your arm basically. It should be one of the most smooth and responsive pieces of an OS. I remember a long time ago, early days of Gnome 3 when doing large file operations would hang the cursor. It made the whole system feel like complete garbage, totally unacceptable. A…

It's debatable if the cursor working but not being able to interact with any of the screen elements is more or less janky than if the mouse is stuttering but you can interact with the elements on the screen.

But since the ability to interact doesn't depend on the cursor, that debate is besides the point

Re: "Fix" MacBook Neo Cursor Lag: Record 1 Pixel of the Screen Every 10 Seconds

#103

Post by eviks »

libria wrote: post #64
alvaniss wrote: post #18

ah yes, the famous mac "Just works" OS

I think this ^ and the "Steve in his grave" comment should be a red flag for Apple execs. Being flawless and polished at UX, hardware experience, and CX in general are the core of Apple's identity and revenue. Granted, the "hold it like this" thing was a huge gaff. I also think the Neo is a culture miss that is diluting their brand. Their logo is synonymous with "expensive" and "quality" but the Neo is affordable and…

> Being flawless and polished at UX, hardware experience, and CX in general are the core of Apple's identity and revenue.

But since they never had all of that, it can't be at the core, so the execs can continue to wave the green $ flag

Re: "Fix" MacBook Neo Cursor Lag: Record 1 Pixel of the Screen Every 10 Seconds

#106

Post by ActorNightly »

libria wrote: post #64
alvaniss wrote: post #18

ah yes, the famous mac "Just works" OS

I think this ^ and the "Steve in his grave" comment should be a red flag for Apple execs. Being flawless and polished at UX, hardware experience, and CX in general are the core of Apple's identity and revenue. Granted, the "hold it like this" thing was a huge gaff. I also think the Neo is a culture miss that is diluting their brand. Their logo is synonymous with "expensive" and "quality" but the Neo is affordable and…

>Being flawless and polished at UX, hardware experience, and CX in general are the core of Apple's identity and revenue.

No, and no.

Apple is at the Ferrari stage of computer hardware.

Ferrari doesn't need to make good cars. They don't even need to make good looking cars (i.e the new Luce). They just need to make cars that are hard to get, with a Ferrari badge. Because the badge carries so much weight, the product is desirable.

Apple is the same way. They could release a terrible laptop, and people will still buy it. Don't believe me? Remember that they had an MBP, pre apple silicon, with comparatively shit specs for the money, and a touchbar with a virtual escape key and a terrible arrow key layout. Thing was actually terrible to use. But yet, because Apple, everyone was still praising it.

Re: "Fix" MacBook Neo Cursor Lag: Record 1 Pixel of the Screen Every 10 Seconds

#107

Post by arghwhat »

jorvi wrote: post #86
arghwhat wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, the cursor just uses an overlay plane, and mobile architectures usually have far more planes (sometimes even an arbitrarily configurable amount), and more flexible hardware compositioning overall than desktop GPUs for efficiency reasons. EDIT: Also note that there is nothing new with the Neo here, as all Macs since the M1 have used the same chip architecture as the iPhone. Desktop GPU designs did not focus on tin…

> Desktop GPU designs did not focus on tiny efficiency gains I'm not sure they're all that tiny if you can squeeze out 70% of top end performance for 25% of the power draw :)

TL;DR: Low power draw for laptops and phones is about who can reduce to the lowest performance, with the most hardware turned completely off while still just barely performing the task at hand. Completely different ballgame.

Peak performance happens at peak power draw and is a matter of having as much hardware as possible pushing as many operations as possible at any given point without spontaneously combusting. Those who have the most advanced manufacturing process, or architecture with the most execution units and best able to keep all units busy wins.

Peak power efficiency is about being able to turn as much hardware off as possible, and having lower quiescent current ("leakage power"), with bigger, beefier chips naturally having higher quiescent currents.

What is talked about here is about gating hardware such that you can shave off milliwatts or microwatts when the system is completely idle, by taking tasks that otherwise use slightly larger blocks that would have to remain on and moving them to smaller, more dedicated blocks. For example, being able to play a video with most render capabilities powered down because the display server can take the output of a hardware video decoder block and feed it straight into a display controller plane.

Re: "Fix" MacBook Neo Cursor Lag: Record 1 Pixel of the Screen Every 10 Seconds

#108

Post by arghwhat »

elliottkember wrote: post #91
jorvi wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Desktop GPU designs did not focus on tiny efficiency gains I'm not sure they're all that tiny if you can squeeze out 70% of top end performance for 25% of the power draw :)

I think the implication is they focussed on the huge efficiency gains, and didn't focus on the small ones?

No, rather that they focused on peak performance, i.e., "churn out the most raw throughput at 400W+", rather than "get as close as possible to 0W when idle or in common uses".

Very different metrics - the former is about optimizing your architecture for pushing the most operations, the latter is about being able to power as many things off as possible.

Re: "Fix" MacBook Neo Cursor Lag: Record 1 Pixel of the Screen Every 10 Seconds

#109

Post by arghwhat »

refulgentis wrote: post #96
eptcyka wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Since this is but an iPhone crammed into a laptop, could this behaviour stem from the fact that iPhones generally need not render a cursor?

Something is being misunderstood, here, it’s not an iPhone crammed into a laptop in a way that requires add’l software work. A simple analogy that fits is its a MacBook with cheaper parts and a M0 series chip.

That's not quite true, as every SoC requries quite significant software bringup for an OS that makes other software engineering tasks seem miniscule in comparison - macOS and iOS just share enough common code that it's not as big of a deal for Apple.

Also not sure why you'd label it as "M0", as trivially beats the M1 on several metrics.

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