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Anthropic says Alibaba illicitly extracted Claude AI model capabilities

reuters.com

601–610 of 1001 posts

Re: Anthropic says Alibaba illicitly extracted Claude AI model capabilities

#601

There's two basic kinds of distillation: 1) the massive [and dumb] method where you ask a question and use the answer as reinforcement (Black Box), and 2) more targeted distillation where you use one model to directly inform/train/guide another model (RLAIF). The latter is basically fine-tuning the model with direction from another model. Thousands of businesses do this every day to fine-tune. This is almost certainl…

> These complaints of distillation are inflating the problem to make it sound worse than it is Unfortunately, the Reuters piece itself is complicit in this dramatization. The lede paragraph parrots Anthropic's talking point that distillation is an "attack", without using quotes that would alert the reader that this framing is a corporate talking point. Distillation is NOT an attack.

Reuters is probably the most rigorous news agency in the world.

> it said was the largest known attack

> Anthropic said in the letter it was supportive of the U.S. government's efforts to combat the attacks

both times the word "attack" appears it's clearly stated that the word was used by the company, it's a direct company quote.

actually putting it into quotes would be editorializing

> Unfortunately, the Reuters piece itself is complicit in this dramatization

how would you feel if somebody quoting you would turn your word dramatization into "dramatization" because they don't agree with your assesment

Re: Anthropic says Alibaba illicitly extracted Claude AI model capabilities

#603

Whoa, Antrophic,etc are really running afraid that their IPO's are gonna crash when people realize that the open models are Good Enough(TM). So I'd put it at 30% that this is a ruse, say that Qwen 3.5,etc is tainted by training by them and start issuing DMCA takedowns to protect the IPO valuation (Or they'll hold off on that, getting a DMCA takedown could backfire spectacularly if others do that to them).

The open source models are more than good enough… c suite doesn’t care if the open source models means you’re slower in shipping by hrs/days if the cost savings make up for it.

This idea of shipping at max speed was stoopid as shit anyway. Going slow is arguably more important than fast fast fast.

Re: Anthropic says Alibaba illicitly extracted Claude AI model capabilities

#604

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Using them was allowed as fair use – it was the downloading of the pirated copies that was infringement. That's why Anthropic switched to scanning paper books.

Isn't scanning also a form of copyright infringement? You are making a digital copy of a book, which is the same thing as downloading a book from the internet...

[deleted]

Re: Anthropic says Alibaba illicitly extracted Claude AI model capabilities

#605

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That sounds like it would actually be fraud.

Not if you simply say in the terms of service that it's allowed. Then suddenly it's normal (every company does this). Similarly to how the terms of service can simply say you're not allowed to sue.

> how the terms of service can simply say you're not allowed to sue.

That doesn’t necessarily mean much. You can put plenty of outrageous statements into any contract that automatically doesn’t make them binding.

Re: Anthropic says Alibaba illicitly extracted Claude AI model capabilities

#606
Suppose Anthropic trained only on data they paid to create, and not the internet or stolen textbooks.

It would still be extremely difficult to muster any sympathy for an organization whose MO is to go public not to honestly raise capital to fund growth and development, but rather to dishonestly leave someone else holding the bag, in some cases involuntarily as their retirement funds are passively invested.

And even supposing they were honest and didn't have an IPO, it would still be extraordinarily difficult to care about their misfortune, because "consolidating all thought-work into the hands of those few who can afford frontier models and datacenters and power plants" is also a special kind of misanthropy.

And even if that were not the case, they're filthy rich already, so who gives a shit if the Chinese companies prevent them from becoming quadrillionaires? :)

Re: Anthropic says Alibaba illicitly extracted Claude AI model capabilities

#607

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are multiple stages of training, and the data/compute mix at each are quite different and produce different "layers" of intelligence. The pretraining stage is the first stage which consists of "next token prediction" on the entire internet, PB of tokens, etc. This is what most people think of when they think of training LLMs, however it produces a "base model" which is not really "intelligent", but rather much…

props for a great write-up

Actually it's a hit piece.

Re: Anthropic says Alibaba illicitly extracted Claude AI model capabilities

#608
post #589

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Terms of use is local US fiction of wishful thinking. Nobody cares. You make something available, it's up to the consumer to decide how are they gonna use it. You don't want people to use your stuff how they please? Get off the market.

Obviously wrong on all counts: the company cares. Just like isn't not up to the consumer since the provider can restrict said consumer's access, report those actions to the authorities etc. Lastly, don't like it? Get off the provider?

The company is completely free to void the contract and stop selling their services to anyone they don’t want to?

Re: Anthropic says Alibaba illicitly extracted Claude AI model capabilities

#610
post #540

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yet they did not need to destroy the models which were trained with them?

Should we require the destruction of the brains of those that watch pirated movies?

Well I enjoyed this response.
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