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Dostoyevsky isn't difficult

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Re: Dostoyevsky isn't difficult

#101

Post by usrnm »

ventana wrote: post #96
usrnm wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are kids "ready" to deal with organic chemistry? Or integrals? Do you think that more people will need the knowledge of the reproductive system of plants than the skill of reading and uderstanding large texts? Not simply understanding the words, but actually analyzing and comprehending what's being said

I actually started re-reading Crime and Punishment right after writing my previous comment, because I barely remember anything after many years. These are the second and the third paragraphs, and reading this text now, in my forties, I perfectly understand everything that's written, and the emotions the protagonist feels, because I know by my very own experience what it is to pay rent, to be in debt, and to have no m…

It's called empathy, we don't have to experience exactly the same thing as other people to be able to understand them. The author himself never experienced the things he's writing about. Do teenagers lack empathy? Of course, but this is education, after all

Re: Dostoyevsky isn't difficult

#102

Post by markasoftware »

victorbjorklund wrote: post #100
ventana wrote: post #81

As a Russian native speaker who graduated from the high school in Russia many years ago, one thing that I don't really understand is why these great works of Russian literature are included in the school must read list. An average teenager, myself included, always has some better things to do than reading a huge novel, barely understanding characters' motivations, because neither of these books were ever intended for…

Isn’t that the purpose of school? To make kids try and expand their thinking to think about things they don’t think about in normal life. A normal average teen does not think about chemistry, math, physics either. Will everything stick? Probably not. But some might stick for some students and that’s better than just giving up and only teaching teens about things average teens are naturally interest in (sex education?…

The comment you're responding to is talking about books that students will "barely understand". You're talking about subjects teens aren't interested in. The comment above says nothing about interest and specifically does not advocate against teaching things to teens just because they aren't interested in them; only if they won't understand them.

Re: Dostoyevsky isn't difficult

#103

Post by brotchie »

chistev wrote: post #78
SugarReflex wrote: post #63

I was blown away by Crime and Punishment. I truly felt like I was the main character, and I read it with feverish sweat and dread for my impending doom. I cringed and felt terrible sadness at the poor little lives of certain individuals. So much woe and tragedy. I was glad to see how it turned out though. I'm currently reading Karamazov and it's good to have something a bit more jovial and dry witted. The main diffic…

I've tried Crime and Punishment like three times but always stopped at some point because I wasn't feeling it. Maybe I'll give it another go.

Try a different translation.

First time I started to read it, it was a slog and I didn’t get far.

Did a bit of research on translations and chose another one (can’t recall the exact translator).

The 2nd attempt’s translation used more contemporary language, which made it much more understandable and got through it.

Re: Dostoyevsky isn't difficult

#104

Post by foretop_yardarm »

chistev wrote: post #78
SugarReflex wrote: post #63

I was blown away by Crime and Punishment. I truly felt like I was the main character, and I read it with feverish sweat and dread for my impending doom. I cringed and felt terrible sadness at the poor little lives of certain individuals. So much woe and tragedy. I was glad to see how it turned out though. I'm currently reading Karamazov and it's good to have something a bit more jovial and dry witted. The main diffic…

I've tried Crime and Punishment like three times but always stopped at some point because I wasn't feeling it. Maybe I'll give it another go.

If you are going to read in English, I can recommend the translation by Oliver Ready

Re: Dostoyevsky isn't difficult

#105

Post by NotGMan »

ventana wrote: post #81

As a Russian native speaker who graduated from the high school in Russia many years ago, one thing that I don't really understand is why these great works of Russian literature are included in the school must read list. An average teenager, myself included, always has some better things to do than reading a huge novel, barely understanding characters' motivations, because neither of these books were ever intended for…

Yes the amount of damage this does to kids must be huge.

Some people here argue that "math is also what kids don't like" but math and chemistry can be understood by a teenager even if he doesn't like it. But these "classic" books can't because much more life, adult problems and having children, deaths of parents and illnesses have to happen in order for one to comprehend this books.

It's like trying to force a 8 year old to read romance novels: since his sexual hormones are not yet activated, he won't understand why a boy all of a sudden likes a girl.

Re: Dostoyevsky isn't difficult

#106

Post by Oreb »

dub4u wrote: post #86
SugarReflex wrote: post #63

I was blown away by Crime and Punishment. I truly felt like I was the main character, and I read it with feverish sweat and dread for my impending doom. I cringed and felt terrible sadness at the poor little lives of certain individuals. So much woe and tragedy. I was glad to see how it turned out though. I'm currently reading Karamazov and it's good to have something a bit more jovial and dry witted. The main diffic…

The name problem totally disappears when you use any e-reader's built-in search on the highlighted name

Not really. The problem with the names in Dostoyevsky (and Russian literature more generally) isn’t that the names on their own are difficult to remember, it is that all names also have familiar forms, which are sometimes very different from the formal name. On page you get introduced to a character named Alexander, a few pages later the text talks about Sasha. For non-native speakers, it’s hard to guess that it’s the same person. An e-reader’s search function isn’t going to make this problem disappear.

Re: Dostoyevsky isn't difficult

#107

Post by davidwritesbugs »

SugarReflex wrote: post #63

I was blown away by Crime and Punishment. I truly felt like I was the main character, and I read it with feverish sweat and dread for my impending doom. I cringed and felt terrible sadness at the poor little lives of certain individuals. So much woe and tragedy. I was glad to see how it turned out though. I'm currently reading Karamazov and it's good to have something a bit more jovial and dry witted. The main diffic…

Same. Then I tried to read Brothers karamazov, “ooof”, it literally took 200 pages before I stopped hating the ‘pointless’ book with its plot that went nowhere. Then I got it. Only certain authors can do this I reckon, but how you’d get a doom-scrolling teenager to do it? Goooood luck.

Re: Dostoyevsky isn't difficult

#108

Post by danielbarla »

usrnm wrote: post #94
ventana wrote: post #81

As a Russian native speaker who graduated from the high school in Russia many years ago, one thing that I don't really understand is why these great works of Russian literature are included in the school must read list. An average teenager, myself included, always has some better things to do than reading a huge novel, barely understanding characters' motivations, because neither of these books were ever intended for…

Are kids "ready" to deal with organic chemistry? Or integrals? Do you think that more people will need the knowledge of the reproductive system of plants than the skill of reading and uderstanding large texts? Not simply understanding the words, but actually analyzing and comprehending what's being said

If we're going with a math analogy, I guess it's a bit like teaching them integrals in 3rd grade. You can do it, they probably have the raw IQ for it. But they won't really understand and appreciate it at a deep level (this is even a problem for people when they encounter integrals at the end of high school / early uni).

Novels like these need some life experience to really shine. A 13 year old isn't going to go "how does this writer see so clearly through so many of life's finer details", because they have never experienced 90% of what's being talked about.

Re: Dostoyevsky isn't difficult

#109

Post by ventana »

usrnm wrote: post #101
ventana wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I actually started re-reading Crime and Punishment right after writing my previous comment, because I barely remember anything after many years. These are the second and the third paragraphs, and reading this text now, in my forties, I perfectly understand everything that's written, and the emotions the protagonist feels, because I know by my very own experience what it is to pay rent, to be in debt, and to have no m…

It's called empathy, we don't have to experience exactly the same thing as other people to be able to understand them. The author himself never experienced the things he's writing about. Do teenagers lack empathy? Of course, but this is education, after all

He probably did not experience that specific situation, but his life before writing “Crime and Punishment” was pretty rough, including prison time and exile in Siberia. Not sure how he would've reacted if he was told that his works will be obligatory reading for 15 years old kids.

Re: Dostoyevsky isn't difficult

#110

Post by sevenzero »

SugarReflex wrote: post #63

I was blown away by Crime and Punishment. I truly felt like I was the main character, and I read it with feverish sweat and dread for my impending doom. I cringed and felt terrible sadness at the poor little lives of certain individuals. So much woe and tragedy. I was glad to see how it turned out though. I'm currently reading Karamazov and it's good to have something a bit more jovial and dry witted. The main diffic…

I read it in the hopes of finding a written character I could relate to, but the dude in Crime and Punishment is just such a massive loser... I lack empathy too, but I would never murder anyone out of pity.
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