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NSA lost access to Mythos amid Anthropic dispute

nytimes.com

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Re: NSA lost access to Mythos amid Anthropic dispute

#251

Post by gaiagraphia »

dlmanning wrote: post #238
gaiagraphia wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sure many 'mediocre' people perform heart surgery. Only 100 years ago, the idea of a person without a certain surname or race, would've been a ghastly preposition, no?

Do you... think heart surgery has become LESS dependent on surgical skill in the last 100 years? Cardiovascular surgeons spend MORE time in training now than they did 100 years ago.

Did heart surgery as we know it exist 100 years ago, or are you trying to conflate things to make a point?

"heart surgery" isn't a technique". Name something, literally anything connected to the profession, and tell me whether the training time is naturally bound to keep going up and up.

Re: NSA lost access to Mythos amid Anthropic dispute

#252

Post by dlmanning »

nl wrote: post #220
gazebo2 wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are we really saying that Anthropic claiming AI would take over industries was some benevolent ethical move rather than marketing their product as a cheap replacement for human labor that works in any industry? Wouldn't the ethical thing, if they were actually concerned about labor displacement, be to shut down the lab and work to disrupt and disable other labs instead?

Oppenheimer believed that technological progress is inevitable: if something can be built it will be. Anthropic (and Deepmind, and some at OpenAI) believe the same thing. Their ethical argument is: 1) This technology is coming whether or not our company does it or not. 2) Strong AI needs to be under human control, and we are the best placed to develop techniques to make this happen. To be very clear: Anthropic (at le…

> Personally I strongly reject the idea that labor displacement is unethical.

Oh, well if you STRONGLY reject it I guess that's it.

> It will be a serious problem to deal with, but that doesn't make it unethical.

What WOULD make it unethical?

> The steam engine displaced labor. That doesn't make it unethical.

The steam engine also created new jobs to replace what it eliminated. It wasn't a mostly one-sided wealth transfer to the elite.

Re: NSA lost access to Mythos amid Anthropic dispute

#253

Post by fc417fc802 »

readthenotes1 wrote: post #244
chasil wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not as familiar with that. I do agree that it sounded substantial. I just think that a coreutils flaw is not as substantial as a rendering engine exploit.

Hadn't they spent a year hardening curl with various AI before they tried Mythos?

Yes. The original curl post didn't say anything like "mythos sucks" but rather "it's only a minor improvement in comparison to already widely used models".

Re: NSA lost access to Mythos amid Anthropic dispute

#254

Post by nl »

dlmanning wrote: post #252
nl wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oppenheimer believed that technological progress is inevitable: if something can be built it will be. Anthropic (and Deepmind, and some at OpenAI) believe the same thing. Their ethical argument is: 1) This technology is coming whether or not our company does it or not. 2) Strong AI needs to be under human control, and we are the best placed to develop techniques to make this happen. To be very clear: Anthropic (at le…

> Personally I strongly reject the idea that labor displacement is unethical. Oh, well if you STRONGLY reject it I guess that's it. > It will be a serious problem to deal with, but that doesn't make it unethical. What WOULD make it unethical? > The steam engine displaced labor. That doesn't make it unethical. The steam engine also created new jobs to replace what it eliminated. It wasn't a mostly one-sided wealth tra…

> The steam engine also created new jobs to replace what it eliminated. It wasn't a mostly one-sided wealth transfer to the elite.

Indeed.

You make my point for me.

Re: NSA lost access to Mythos amid Anthropic dispute

#255

Post by colechristensen »

archagon wrote: post #208
colechristensen wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was able to identify, diagnose, fix, and upstream a minor bug in and erlang/OTP ssh key implementation with Opus in maybe 20 minutes (+2 weeks or so for upstream). It is not impossible that I could have done this before, but it would have taken days or weeks. The actual fix was about 2 lines of code, hardly AI slop, but getting there would have been quite the slog, and I never would have done it. There is a lot of…

Force multiplier? Or low-hanging fruit pruner?

More than low hanging fruit, I think it would have been legitimately hard to find. It only triggered 1/512 runs and probably would have required some expertise in crypto algorithms.

BUT regardless, pruning low hanging fruit for any task IS a force multiplier. So much of so many tasks are easy but tedious. Finding libraries, documentation not matching code thus reading code, correct syntax/arguments, and just tons of straightforward tasks which are not HARD but time consuming.

Re: NSA lost access to Mythos amid Anthropic dispute

#256

Post by ransom1538 »

taftster wrote: post #106
ransom1538 wrote: post #101

NSA has produced nothing. Does nothing. Why don't we just have them pick up garbage on the freeway to help out the tax payers? Let Anthropic and other adults push spying forward.

Have we become reddit here? I mean, you probably have some sympathy and upvotes from fellow readers, but this isn't pushing the conversation forward at all. Any citations to your statement that NSA produces nothing? Or do you have a strong argument or evidence to support this?

I was expecting you to crush me with links of all their great works.. but nothing.

Re: NSA lost access to Mythos amid Anthropic dispute

#257

Post by colechristensen »

aspenmartin wrote: post #152
colechristensen wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point I'm trying to make is Anthropic's marketing about broad security risk related to the capability of its models is a valid concern though their dog and pony show really overdid it, probably to the detriment of us all for many reasons. It is indeed amplifying the abilities of people to find and exploit security issues. The point of my anecdote is I was able to identify and fix an at least security adjacent bug…

What was the dog and pony show?

White House and Anthropic hold 'productive' meeting amid fears over Mythos model https://www.reuters.com/world/anthropic-ceo-dario-amodei-arr...

This and other things around April

Re: NSA lost access to Mythos amid Anthropic dispute

#258

Post by jawiggins »

> The White House and intelligence officials had pushed forward a classified contract between Anthropic and the N.S.A., which would allow the spy agency to use the company’s technology for a variety of purposes, including intelligence analysis and detecting new computer vulnerabilities.

Ironic that both sides are playing a horse shoe game:

Gov: The model is both a supply chain risk and also we'll DPA you if you don't give it to us.

Anthropic: The model is both like a nuclear weapon in terms of national security implications and safe for general release.

Re: NSA lost access to Mythos amid Anthropic dispute

#259

Post by colechristensen »

DyslexicAtheist wrote: post #126
colechristensen wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was able to identify, diagnose, fix, and upstream a minor bug in and erlang/OTP ssh key implementation with Opus in maybe 20 minutes (+2 weeks or so for upstream). It is not impossible that I could have done this before, but it would have taken days or weeks. The actual fix was about 2 lines of code, hardly AI slop, but getting there would have been quite the slog, and I never would have done it. There is a lot of…

> I was able to identify, diagnose, fix, ... a link to the PR or Changelog would strengthen this comment that it actually happened?

Find it yourself. On any recently released erlang create an ssh server with their library. With the only available post-quantum algorithm connect to the server 1,000 times. You should get one or two key exchange failures (1/512 chance to fail)

Re: NSA lost access to Mythos amid Anthropic dispute

#260

Post by nozzlegear »

aspenmartin wrote: post #207
nozzlegear wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Was it more ethical for the boy who cried wolf to have cried wolf so many times that nobody believed him when a wolf finally did show up?

Be specific, what are you talking about. Industry has been continuously warning about many of the complex problems that are going to happen as a clear consequence of the technology. I don’t know of any problem they have talked about that hasn’t either already come to fruition in one sense or another or that just hasn’t yet arrived. Dario has been predicting the end of coding for a long time now and look where we alre…

I'm talking about the breathless alarmism that Dario and his company push out as a marketing strategy. They've given us such gems as these:

- "It’s a bit like selling nuclear weapons to North Korea" (from the company that can't go more than a day or two without serious downtime)

- "We are releasing a model that is too powerful for the public"

- "It would be good for the world to have the option to slow or temporarily pause frontier AI development."

- "I believe that biological risks may soon follow, and that serious AI autonomy risks may not be far behind."

You can fill my ear with nitpicks about there still being time for these cries of wolf to be born out, but be prepared for me to wax philosophical about all things being possible given an eternal timescale.

> Dario has been predicting the end of coding for a long time now and look where we already are.

Where? It seems exceedingly unlikely that developers have all been phased out while I wasn't looking, as Dario prognosticated. And even if they all up and disappeared, AI still hasn't found a toehold outside of the relatively niche market of agentic coding.

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