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Hulu requests removal from Boxee

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Re: Hulu requests removal from Boxee

#21

Post by ja2ke »

swlevy wrote: post #9
abstractbill wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The old-media guys who made this decision almost certainly don't have a clue what RSS is. I share your viewpoint, but there are (still) many dinosaurs running this industry.

It isn't quite that simple; I work for an "old media" company, and for us, Boxee jumped the gun by ingesting content prior to having the requisite agreement. Since they did not consult our developers, our ads were not implemented correctly, and we weren't getting paid (even though Boxee's users may have been seeing the ads).

Progess is slow, and it's hard to get people to change, etc, but Boxee seems extraordinarily dedicated to getting real partners onto its service, and serving as much legal content as they can. I do think that they might be overstepping or at least stepping out of being "professional" by just integrating things like Hulu content, basically "rogue," but it's what they have to do to get a userbase and to get the buzz that they have.

But now, they're here, and they want to play. There is a service and a userbase who are all clearly invested in supporting your legal content, sitting here staring content providers in the face. Surely entertainment hubris or ego will get in the way of things actually going smoothly in a situation like this, but its one of those times where I wish everyone would just shut up, play ball, and make money.

Re: Hulu requests removal from Boxee

#22

Post by paul7986 »

jasonkester wrote: post #17
sachinag wrote: post #5

You can fullscreen Hulu onto your TV with a PlayStation 3.

You can fullscreen Hulu onto your TV with a laptop. It's like a $5 cable.

yeah or get a mac mini and put in your tv cabinet and connect it to your LCD TV. Use a wireless mouse as a remote. You can watch Hulu, YouTube, theWB, joost, cbsnews.com/video, tv.com, wbkids.com and others this way.

Re: Hulu requests removal from Boxee

#23

Post by peregrine »

bestes wrote: post #10
swlevy wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It isn't quite that simple; I work for an "old media" company, and for us, Boxee jumped the gun by ingesting content prior to having the requisite agreement. Since they did not consult our developers, our ads were not implemented correctly, and we weren't getting paid (even though Boxee's users may have been seeing the ads).

Isn't this something you(or they) could fix on your end?

Hulu probably signed an agreement with say Tivo or Microsoft(360), nintendo, sony, heck even samsung. To do the same thing but have people pay for it and get some royalties. This product only

Hulu wasn't making any money with this. Boxee was full of people who would use Hulu without boxee and see the ads but the Hulu brand and ads wouldn't be connected as clearly as they would be online.

In a recession things like that can fly but when your trying to make money you gotta work for it.

Re: Hulu requests removal from Boxee

#24

Post by nikblack »

There is some background to this that is interesting. The reason why the content holders behind Hulu didn't want their content on Boxee was because it came too close to replicating the television experience.

While the advertising was kept in place, it still doesn't attract the rates that normal television does. Given a choice, content holders definitely prefer viewers to tune into ordinary broadcast television to watch their shows - online content is about capturing the potion of viewers who miss shows and don't watch broadcast television.

With Boxee, there is the potential that the online content will cut into the broadcast TV audience - hence this decision.

What is interesting is that the true motives are now more obvious. Online content, in the form of both iTunes and Hulu, is fine as long as it doesn't cut too close to the broadcast base.

Content holders have gone from vigorously defending their network broadcasts to now accepting online content, but only to a point. The next battle will take place when more intelligent PC-like DVR's come out on the market (like the PS3, but at a $100-150 price point) allowing viewers to easily stream online content to a television with a remote. The content owners have a short time window between now and then where they have the best of both worlds - both broadcast and online, but once it all goes online the very lucrative and protected broadcast market will be threatened.

With online, there is no more having to acquire broadcast licenses, no more large-scale infrastructure networks to reach your potential audience and no longer limited competition and cable monopolies with packaged channel selection.

Re: Hulu requests removal from Boxee

#25

Post by nikblack »

nikblack wrote: post #24

There is some background to this that is interesting. The reason why the content holders behind Hulu didn't want their content on Boxee was because it came too close to replicating the television experience. While the advertising was kept in place, it still doesn't attract the rates that normal television does. Given a choice, content holders definitely prefer viewers to tune into ordinary broadcast television to wat…

Further, here is a comparison of CPM rates and revenue for a typical TV episode.

Network TV: $20-40cpm per ad - 15-19 ads shown in 30 minutes

Cable: $1-15 cpm per ad - 10-22 ads shown (plus subscription revenue)

iTunes: $0.80 per viewer, so CPM of $80 total (est network share)

Hulu / Online: CPM $10-40. 1-4 ads per show.

If you do the math, its obvious that network broadcasts really rake it in. A 30 second spot on a prime time network show sells for anywhere from $400,000 to $800,000 per spot (for 15-30M viewers).

If everyone started watching Hulu instead, they would lose 80-90% of revenue. If everybody downloaded on iTunes (assuming 3 viewers per download, or more is likely) they would still lose out but not as much.

The problem is if the networks start offering a la carte shows for $2 a pop, they lose the bundling revenue (ie. channels you receive in a bundle but would never pay for on their own).

Re: Hulu requests removal from Boxee

#27

Post by jrockway »

jonursenbach wrote: post #2

It really is a shame for NBCU, and company, to ask Hulu to cut Boxee off. If I recall correctly, didn't content from Hulu that was piped into Boxee still have ads? Hopefully someday they'll realize that when they cut off people from having legal access to their content, people will go back to their illegal methods. When will old media learn?

Hopefully someday they'll realize that when they cut off people from having legal access to their content, people will go back to their illegal methods. When will old media learn?

How is bit-torrenting TV episodes illegal?

They are broadcast into my house for free, so why would it matter if I record them, or if Some Guy On The Internet records them for me? (I never watch TV un-timeshifted, so I don't see ads either way.)

Re: Hulu requests removal from Boxee

#28

Post by brent »

nikblack wrote: post #25
nikblack wrote: post #24

There is some background to this that is interesting. The reason why the content holders behind Hulu didn't want their content on Boxee was because it came too close to replicating the television experience. While the advertising was kept in place, it still doesn't attract the rates that normal television does. Given a choice, content holders definitely prefer viewers to tune into ordinary broadcast television to wat…

Further, here is a comparison of CPM rates and revenue for a typical TV episode. Network TV: $20-40cpm per ad - 15-19 ads shown in 30 minutes Cable: $1-15 cpm per ad - 10-22 ads shown (plus subscription revenue) iTunes: $0.80 per viewer, so CPM of $80 total (est network share) Hulu / Online: CPM $10-40. 1-4 ads per show. If you do the math, its obvious that network broadcasts really rake it in. A 30 second spot on a…

First, thank you for providing actual numbers.... but...

Supply and demand. If everyone started watching on Hulu they would be able to charge more per advertisement. These are rates given the current situation, not the future. Why do I say this? I watch Hulu. I do not watch TV otherwise. If the advertisers (and networks) want my eyeballs they need to provide content via Hulu.

Re: Hulu requests removal from Boxee

#29

Post by zhyder »

wmf wrote: post #19
zhyder wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hulu.com does have fewer ads than broadcast TV (altho a DVR can circumvent ads on the latter). If NBC makes less per view on Hulu than it does on TV, this request makes some sense.

No it doesn't, because whether you watch Hulu using Firefox or Boxee the same ads should be shown.

I know. But when you bring up the same show on TV using over-the-air/satellite/cable you see more ads.

Re: Hulu requests removal from Boxee

#30

Post by wmf »

jrockway wrote: post #27
jonursenbach wrote: post #2

It really is a shame for NBCU, and company, to ask Hulu to cut Boxee off. If I recall correctly, didn't content from Hulu that was piped into Boxee still have ads? Hopefully someday they'll realize that when they cut off people from having legal access to their content, people will go back to their illegal methods. When will old media learn?

Hopefully someday they'll realize that when they cut off people from having legal access to their content, people will go back to their illegal methods. When will old media learn? How is bit-torrenting TV episodes illegal? They are broadcast into my house for free, so why would it matter if I record them, or if Some Guy On The Internet records them for me? (I never watch TV un-timeshifted, so I don't see ads either w…

I'll assume this was a serious question. While recording a show yourself and downloading it both produce the same outcome, copyright law cares about the path that bits take. Even if the TV networks are distributing something for free, it isn't legal for you to redistribute it for free without their permission.
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