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Unlimited OCR: One-shot long-horizon parsing

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Re: Unlimited OCR: One-shot long-horizon parsing

#111

Post by vrc »

ryanisnan wrote: post #90
MattRogish wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do OCR of images, and that's exactly what I do. I take one big image and slice it into many smaller ones, and send those to the LLM. Perfect every time, unlike using the whole image which resulted in hot garbage.

How do you know where to slice an image? What if you slice an image mid-word?

Paddle-VL and GLM-OCR do this by using PP-DocLayoutv3 as their "detector/slicer" and then just batch the OCR on the clips to do pretty darn well at a tiny size.

A lower-tech version is to use a good detector and XY-cut or just a naive Y-cut or orientation-away cut to slice up the page. But if you're doing that you're getting closer and closer to DocVLM style OCR+low res image. Been playing around with something like this using the new PPOCRv6 which itself punches well above most traditional OCRs and is multi-language without the hassle of language detection and dict-loading for rec.

Re: Unlimited OCR: One-shot long-horizon parsing

#112

Post by vrc »

jbarrow wrote: post #110

I'm always glad to see more multi-page work in VLM-based OCR. Especially single-pass. One of the few other multi-page papers from recently, MinerU-Popo, treats fixing up multi-page outputs as a post-processing correction step ( https://arxiv.org/abs/2605.24973 ). Interesting to see the drop-off in quality as you up page count, though. I also think the attention approach (always attend to the image/prefix, with a slid…

What are your thoughts on the detector --> VLM pipelines, and if there's ever a world where a small LM or LM augmented detector can be efficient enough to play a role as router. I ask because I recognize you from your handle and am very familiar with your work in the doc+detector space.

Re: Unlimited OCR: One-shot long-horizon parsing

#113

Post by krackers »

ranger_danger wrote: post #103
robotswantdata wrote: post #5

Very interesting. The way I understand this works is that the researchers found a clever architectural hack to stop AI from hoarding memory when reading long documents. Normally, when an AI transcribes a 100 page PDF, it tries to remember every single word it has already ingested. This short-term memory (the KV cache) grows linearly O(N) until the model runs out of VRAM and crashes (or caps it) To avoid this, develop…

I thought all the major LLM tools already supported sliding window attention?

I mean sliding window attention is the most basic way of getting long context window. For the OCR case it seems like it should be even simpler, since you don't even need to have the "sliding" portion, unless I"m missing something you don't need to retain anything about the previous pages to OCR a new page so you could just pick a short context window and restart from scratch each time. [^1]

Were people really trying to do OCR with vanilla attention?

[^1] Although maybe I guess looking at their demo, tables that span multiple pages might be a use-case for having some look back.

Re: Unlimited OCR: One-shot long-horizon parsing

#114

Post by Ey7NFZ3P0nzAe »

novoreorx wrote: post #57

FYI, "Unlimited OCR Works" is a Fate/stay night reference. The original "Unlimited Blade Works" is a magic whose entire premise is copying weapons other people forged

Thanks. Full context : https://typemoon.fandom.com/wiki/Unlimited_Blade_Works

Re: Unlimited OCR: One-shot long-horizon parsing

#115

Post by mejutoco »

indiv0 wrote: post #109
mejutoco wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> how well Opus 4.8 understands [...] and he'll confidently I always think of the nun character against AI in Mrs Davis: > "Don't give it a name. No one calls Facebook Doug. No one calls Twitter Mary Lou. No one calls them anything, because no one uses them anymore. They use it, and it's not a person. It's code. - Mrs Davis

You're not wrong, but if I'm talking to a Chinese Room, I'm still going to use pronouns and all sorts of meatbag-specific language. It doesn't matter if there really is a real person on the other end or not -- it's easier for me to just default to the assumption that there is. Monkey brain gonna anthropomorphize. On the other hand if I try to talk to Facebook, all he says in response is "200 OK".

I am not saying it is wrong to call Opus "he". I am saying it reminds me of that show, that is all. No further intention from my side.

Re: Unlimited OCR: One-shot long-horizon parsing

#116

Post by gcr »

pbhjpbhj wrote: post #96
squidbeak wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've never seen it used that way. Any compliment can be repurposed as sarcasm, but it's obscenely cynical to immediately assume a compliment is sarcastic - instead of just a compliment. And by the way, there's no 'real' in the poster's message.

Yet you responded to my comment in the most cynical way possible. I was excusing the misunderstanding -- I assumed that the parent might only have seen it used cynically as that is a charitable way to interpret the apparent miscommunication and is quite possible. You shit on my comment and then told me doing such things is "cynical". Imagine a pipe before the closing square-bracket if you wish -- the standard editori…

Now you understand why I thought something written in good faith might be interpreted as shade. Happens all the time.

Re: Unlimited OCR: One-shot long-horizon parsing

#117

Post by pmarreck »

messe wrote: post #102
pbhjpbhj wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By saying it's a dogwhistle are you saying that not adding the correct diacritics is considered racist by Irish people? If I change the rest of the sentence to Na Gaeilge will that be better.

No, I'm saying that it's associated with a certain outdated and bigoted attitude toward the Irish. Using Éire in English, would be seen as odd. You wouldn't say Deutschland or Danmark. > If I change the rest of the sentence to Na Gaeilge will that be better. No. And you've used the genitive instead of nominative there, so I have some doubts that you could.

Not OC but couldn't help commenting here because I think this is a problem of subjectivity vs. intent and the ambiguity introduced by text.

1) I am German descent so I'd definitely use Deutschland to appear fancy or play with words when speaking of Germany, without any bias implied or meant.

2) The problem with believing in dogwhistles (whether they exist or not, and I know they do, but bear with me) is that the "perceived dogwhistle surface area" increases in proportion to your belief in the prevalence of dogwhistles. In other words, the more firmly you are looking for "plausibly deniable" racist terms, the more you will find terms that were actually intended to be innocent, to be offensive, and the more upset you will be in the world, AND the more annoyed people will get with you if they are not subscribed to the whole "we must avoid any possible term that could remotely be misconstrued as a plausibly-deniable dogwhistle for fear of offending someone" worldview.

I would have absolutely used Éire but in a friendly way, and you're saying it would be perceived as a dogwhistle. Best to clarify what the person who typed it meant, before jumping to conclusions, sir. Not everyone is interested in filling their mind with extra rules just to cater to others' insecurities.

Lastly, your comment violates the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Principle_of_charity , which is a good principle for everyone to maintain.

Re: Unlimited OCR: One-shot long-horizon parsing

#118

Post by messe »

pmarreck wrote: post #117
messe wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, I'm saying that it's associated with a certain outdated and bigoted attitude toward the Irish. Using Éire in English, would be seen as odd. You wouldn't say Deutschland or Danmark. > If I change the rest of the sentence to Na Gaeilge will that be better. No. And you've used the genitive instead of nominative there, so I have some doubts that you could.

Not OC but couldn't help commenting here because I think this is a problem of subjectivity vs. intent and the ambiguity introduced by text. 1) I am German descent so I'd definitely use Deutschland to appear fancy or play with words when speaking of Germany, without any bias implied or meant. 2) The problem with believing in dogwhistles (whether they exist or not, and I know they do, but bear with me) is that the "per…

In this case, it was not used in a jocular way. It was a British person demonstrating their complete and utter ignorance of the only country they share a land border with, and I will call them out on that any day of the week.
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