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PR spam today looks like email spam in the early 2000s

greptile.com

61–70 of 167 posts

Re: PR spam today looks like email spam in the early 2000s

#61
post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>People spamming Open Source repos with AI PRs aren't trying to help Open Source, they're trying to build a brand I am certain many of them honestly believe that they are doing the right thing and that they are helping. After all hey, they implemented a feature or fixed a bug for the community! It's a grim worldview if you think they are all just selfish.

It's not like this must be exclusively A or B. The high school kid who volunteers at a homeless shelter and hopes it will help their college app is likely doing it both out of altruism and self-interest. (Actually, the person who helps people because it feels good is also acting out of self-interest). Given many ways to be altruistic, people will usually pick the ones that coincide more with their self interest. And…

Is altruism entirely about self interest?

I'm not saying that to take away from it, but people do things to feel good, or because they get something out of it. Either way you are being rewarded.

This explains plenty of bizarre outcomes. I was speaking to a guy who worked at a food bank. They would take cash donations, buy food at full price at the supermarket, then have volunteers (in a paid for space) pack up boxes.

A more sensible route would be food vouchers. People can buy what they want, no money spent on rent, so more goes to those in need.

But donators want to feel they are donating food and volunteers, probably mainly the higher ups feel that all this unneeded machinery is 'productive' therefore more meaningful / they are in charge of actual people and a physical location which makes them feel important. Thus the inefficiency continues.

Re: PR spam today looks like email spam in the early 2000s

#63
post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>People spamming Open Source repos with AI PRs aren't trying to help Open Source, they're trying to build a brand I am certain many of them honestly believe that they are doing the right thing and that they are helping. After all hey, they implemented a feature or fixed a bug for the community! It's a grim worldview if you think they are all just selfish.

It's not like this must be exclusively A or B. The high school kid who volunteers at a homeless shelter and hopes it will help their college app is likely doing it both out of altruism and self-interest. (Actually, the person who helps people because it feels good is also acting out of self-interest). Given many ways to be altruistic, people will usually pick the ones that coincide more with their self interest. And…

What if you want the world to be demonstrably better, and yet you're pretty sure the world is not just you?

Does that count, or is it axiomatic that for every person, the world is entirely just them and they have no concept of everything/anything outside themselves? I feel like this is probably only some people, and doesn't describe literally every person.

Re: PR spam today looks like email spam in the early 2000s

#64
post #2

Maybe we should cut out the middle-man and make it easy for people to donate token credits to open-source projects, and let the maintainers decide how to use them.

So that's how the sci-fi dystopias end up using "credits" for their money.

Re: PR spam today looks like email spam in the early 2000s

#65
post #61
post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not like this must be exclusively A or B. The high school kid who volunteers at a homeless shelter and hopes it will help their college app is likely doing it both out of altruism and self-interest. (Actually, the person who helps people because it feels good is also acting out of self-interest). Given many ways to be altruistic, people will usually pick the ones that coincide more with their self interest. And…

Is altruism entirely about self interest? I'm not saying that to take away from it, but people do things to feel good, or because they get something out of it. Either way you are being rewarded. This explains plenty of bizarre outcomes. I was speaking to a guy who worked at a food bank. They would take cash donations, buy food at full price at the supermarket, then have volunteers (in a paid for space) pack up boxes.…

The majority of food banks get discounted supplies. They seldom pay full retail price. In some cases I know about, distributors and retailers will sell older perishable stock to food banks when they don't think they can move it quickly enough.

The trouble with food vouchers is that junkies trade them for drugs. Vouchers are more "liquid" than physical food.

Re: PR spam today looks like email spam in the early 2000s

#66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>People spamming Open Source repos with AI PRs aren't trying to help Open Source, they're trying to build a brand I am certain many of them honestly believe that they are doing the right thing and that they are helping. After all hey, they implemented a feature or fixed a bug for the community! It's a grim worldview if you think they are all just selfish.

Yeah. I'm sure some (maybe a lot?) are for selfish reasons, but there is also a pretty large section of users who have always wanted to contribute, help out, or make some features in their favorite projects and just never had the skill or opportunity to do so and see LLMs as a way for them to final actualize that desire. Think about it from the perspective of a non-programmer, or even total non-technical person. Vibe…

> make some features in their favorite projects and just never had the skill or opportunity to do so

They still don't have the skills to help

> they genuinely feel like they're finally able to help.

They can feel that but they aren't helping and they would understand that if they had the skills to help

Re: PR spam today looks like email spam in the early 2000s

#67
If anyone is interested in what it was like fighting spam in the early 2000s, I worked for a company that captured spam, analyzed it and then passed the analysis s on to the law firms of the big email providers for targeting under CAN-SPAM.

Twitter thread about it below but happy to do a AMA here.

https://x.com/alexpotato/status/1208948480867127296?s=20

Re: PR spam today looks like email spam in the early 2000s

#68
post #37

AI agents who review the slop created by other AI agents is not the answer here. I much prefer a blanket ban on PRs and issues created by AI agents (which is what I personally do for my repos; so far I have closed one[1]). In fact I would love a github alternative which considers AI contributions to be a breach of their terms of use and ban any people who let AI agents loose on their platform. 1: https://github.com/r…

But what about the good AI driven contributions though? Do you categorize all AI changes as slop by default or only the real bad ones that mix refactoring and tons of other unrelated changes with a fix? Some can fix real issues, with a well targeted fix (not rewriting the world), well defined test and write up. If you accepted PRs before for other issues, you should be able to review and accept those too.

> But what about the good AI driven contributions though?

Okay, who is going to wade through the noise to find the signal? You?

Re: PR spam today looks like email spam in the early 2000s

#69
post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not like this must be exclusively A or B. The high school kid who volunteers at a homeless shelter and hopes it will help their college app is likely doing it both out of altruism and self-interest. (Actually, the person who helps people because it feels good is also acting out of self-interest). Given many ways to be altruistic, people will usually pick the ones that coincide more with their self interest. And…

What if you want the world to be demonstrably better, and yet you're pretty sure the world is not just you? Does that count, or is it axiomatic that for every person, the world is entirely just them and they have no concept of everything/anything outside themselves? I feel like this is probably only some people, and doesn't describe literally every person.

I don't think you read what I said.

I retired from industry to teach high school.

A really big part of why I did this is because I wanted to help. I make basically nothing. There are many more personally lucrative things that I could do that help society and people less.

But there's millions of ways that I could help. I didn't maximize my impact, I don't think. I did one that was a confluence between altruism, feeling good to me, conferring other advantages, etc. In other words, altruism was not the sole factor in my decision -- just a very large one.

Re: PR spam today looks like email spam in the early 2000s

#70
post #2

Maybe we should cut out the middle-man and make it easy for people to donate token credits to open-source projects, and let the maintainers decide how to use them.

Unfortunately "I donated money/tokens to open source" doesn't land interviews as well as "I'm a big contributor to open source" People spamming Open Source repos with AI PRs aren't trying to help Open Source, they're trying to build a brand, some kind of credible online presence with their username on it, or whatever else. It's purely selfish and completely opposite to the spirit of Open Software imo

Maybe I'm optimistic or not typical but in my experience people submit random PR to open source projects because they really want the project to do xyz for their own project/reasons, and the project doesn't do xyz.

And the PR is considered "spam" because the maintainer doesn't see xyz as part of his needs or his vision for the project.

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