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For most of the world, open-source AI is the only way forward

techstrong.ai

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Re: For most of the world, open-source AI is the only way forward

#101
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

NO! This is the wrong approach that will turn us into serfs. We need big honking models that do what the leading foundation hyperscaler models do to within a few percentage points of measured performance. The small-scale models are not productive, and the duct tape solutions built on top of them are hobbyist-tier "year of Linux on desktop" toys. I imagine fedora-wearing, crypto-shilling, coupon-cutting boffins every…

Firstly, unless you are the leader of any of the faangs, you are a serf on the whole, if you believe in that philosophy as being relevant. We need the right tool for the job. Certain models have minimum energy expense no matter what the task is and that's often wasted, both on the scale of some tasks and also repetition. There is a place and a need for large models, local models, and single purpose models. The same w…

> if you believe in that philosophy as being relevant.

If you tell the open weights labs that you want tiny models, you'll get more shitty tiny models.

If tell them you don't want tiny models and you want big models, they'll change their focus.

> We need the right tool for the job.

The world has enough shitty tiny models. You can frankly distill your own without wasting the time of foundation labs.

> energy expense

You are so far removed from the discourse that I think I'm wasting my time talking to you. This is not about energy in the slightest.

> There is a place and a need for large models, local models, and single purpose models.

This is where 99.999% of the demand is. And if you look, you'll notice that most of the token usage is accruing to hyperscalers because the market isn't meeting this demand with enough alternatives.

The robotics industry will produce energy efficient models. Let them be the ones to press for that. Stop demanding cheapo LLMs, image, and video models. Big is all that matters in this domain.

Re: For most of the world, open-source AI is the only way forward

#102
post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With hardware like the Spark and Strix, the water usage is known to be zero, yea? On the energy front, I assume less efficient, but I also think there is a tradeoff in efficiency versus freedom, that's why I have my own hardware.

The electricity used by hardware itself consumes water. When people talk about data center water usage they're often also including the water used in electricity generation.

Ironically, 77% of my electricity comes from flowing water rather than the boiling it, ~90% renewable overall

Once we get to fully renewable (as a country), there should be no water involved in electricity generation as well.

Re: For most of the world, open-source AI is the only way forward

#103
post #2

Agreed but I want to see how it plays out. Historically a good Windows computer cost $1000 and it was all it took to start programming. How much does it cost a computer with enough resources to run a good enough AI model for agentic workflows and a reasonable time to first token? Can "most of the world" afford buying one?

> Historically a good Windows computer cost $1000 and it was all it took to start programming. Gotta remember inflation here. $1K in 1995 was roughly equivalent to $2K now and wouldn't have been a particularly "good" machine then. In 1982 the Commodore 64 started at about $600 bucks, also roughly around $2K today. If you outgrew that, beefier machines back then were A LOT. It was easy to find $2k+ towers and (especia…

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Re: For most of the world, open-source AI is the only way forward

#104

> LeCun framed AI as an infrastructure-level platform that will soon mediate "all of our interaction with the digital world with information more generally" This doesn't read as revolutionary, it reads as accepting a premise without explaining how and why it will and must be the case. Some of my favorite parts of the internet - wikis and forums and blogs - are special to me because there is no procedurally generated…

As AI amplifies everyone’s output, you’ll need AI to amplify your input capacity—or you’ll fall behind.

Re: For most of the world, open-source AI is the only way forward

#105

> LeCun framed AI as an infrastructure-level platform that will soon mediate "all of our interaction with the digital world with information more generally" This doesn't read as revolutionary, it reads as accepting a premise without explaining how and why it will and must be the case. Some of my favorite parts of the internet - wikis and forums and blogs - are special to me because there is no procedurally generated…

As AI amplifies everyone’s output, you’ll need AI to amplify your input capacity—or you’ll fall behind.

Slop out, slop in.

Re: For most of the world, open-source AI is the only way forward

#106
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd love to see credible numbers on the energy usage of thousands of people running models on their own devices compared to sharing data center resources to run big models that serve many different people at the same time. My hunch is that the energy/water usage of the data centers is a whole lot more efficient than everyone running at home, but I'd be interested in seeing real data on that.

Water usage goes up with data centers because more cooling is needed when you run the hardware harder. So: if you're running the models on your own machine, presumably you're not running them as often, and air cooling is sufficient. But, at the same time, this is less efficient in terms of hardware use; the data centers need water cooling specifically because they're getting more bang from their buck from their hardw…

Almonds and avocados use two orders of magnitude more water.

You can start adjusting your consumption of those products.

Re: For most of the world, open-source AI is the only way forward

#107
post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have bad news about my private code and medical notes...

Looking forward to some pre/non-finetuned frontier model to leak, and people to start completing medical notes.

> Looking forward to some pre/non-finetuned frontier model to leak

I'm looking forward to this too. It'll be incredibly useful.

Re: For most of the world, open-source AI is the only way forward

#108
post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Companies aren't really that better. Actually, sometimes it's even worse, because they are not even formally required to serve the public.

A big reason for that is the dumb decision from Dodge v. Ford Motor Co., giving us this quasi-capitalism which optimizes for the wrong thing.

LEgislation could make that obsolete but it seems like most/all of our legislative institutions are captured by business interests.

Re: For most of the world, open-source AI is the only way forward

#109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No human work was stolen, it was read.

Come on. It reads all the code in the world; then, you ask it to produce code; then, it gladly writes out something "new" which is a synthesis of what is out there, often with direct copying. It's more than reading.

Sounds like exactly what I do
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