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Founding a company in Germany: €9600, 152 days and I still can't send an invoice

paolino.me

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Re: Founding a company in Germany: €9600, 152 days and I still can't send an invoice

#611

Post by t0mas88 »

nradov wrote: post #231
FLHerne wrote: post #51

> Which leaves the only real question. Why 25,000 at all? It is my company and my risk. If I want to start with nothing, that is my call, not a toll the state collects before it will let me try. > And the cheap door has a price of its own: to some clients, “UG” reads as “not serious,” and they would rather deal with a GmbH The post itself explains exactly why the first complaint is a fallacy and the second one is tru…

If a company collapses while having more liabilities than assets then that's fine. No one is being forced to extend any credit to them.

That's the American viewpoint, right of the strongest, sue if they wronged you. European systems typically have a different philosophy where the counterparties are more protected.

It's expressed in stronger consumer protection laws, but also these German things where you can't start a GmbH/LLC with zero capital and wish the counterparties good luck suing you if you never pay them.

Re: Founding a company in Germany: €9600, 152 days and I still can't send an invoice

#612

Post by quentindanjou »

fakedang wrote: post #550
quentindanjou wrote: post #436

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. Unless you have hundreds of thousands of dollars that you can invest in the company that has not even been created, you would not be able to get a visa and your company would not be able to exist. Unless you are a startup with large investors, that route is closed.

Who said anything about getting a visa? The entire point of my idea was about skipping German bureaucracy. The only US bureaucracy is the IRS, and 2 forms for offshore LLCs at that. Getting a visa actually defeats the purpose of the Wyoming LLC, since you'd have to pay federal taxes as a US resident. But with the Wyoming LLC being pass-through with the added benefit of zero liability (same arrangement as OP), you'd o…

O1, EB5 or EB1 are visas, sure EBs are also referred to as "green cards" but they are visas. And you are also missing the E-2 category.

The US has dedicated visas for running your own company in normal circumstances. I am not sure what you mean.

Re: Founding a company in Germany: €9600, 152 days and I still can't send an invoice

#613

Post by sarchertech »

glad_duck wrote: post #591
rayiner wrote: post #308

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not quite. In the US this condition is handled at the back end. Running a corporation or LLC without sufficient capitalization can be grounds for piercing the liability shield in a lawsuit.

Haven't heard anything about LLC capitalization in this context. Liability shield can be pierced, but only if LLC is misused (i.e. "when the company is treated as a personal "alter ego" and used to commit fraud, injustice, or illegal acts"). Lack of capitalization is not one of the reasons as long as you treat it as a company, not your wallet.

No there’s lots of reasons it can’t be pierced. It doesn’t shield you from liability that results from your own negligence, and for owner operator businesses that’s a large attack surface.

Re: Founding a company in Germany: €9600, 152 days and I still can't send an invoice

#614

Post by sam_lowry_ »

World Bank's Easy of Doing Business description is much less dramatic: https://archive.doingbusiness.org/en/data/exploreeconomies/g...

But I know for a fact that these ratings are pure crap. I asked them to fix the entry for Belgium once, and they replied that they trust the officials providing the info even though I sent the references to the legislation.

Re: Founding a company in Germany: €9600, 152 days and I still can't send an invoice

#615

Post by orthoxerox »

asyx wrote: post #528
nonethewiser wrote: post #457

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don’t think the barrier to entry is a valid criticism?

Like he said the GmbH is just the wrong legal form of his company. You can register a Kleingewerbe online over night and an UG within 2 weeks and that waiting period is only 2 weeks because it's such a simple and cheap process that notaries won't make time for you and they are busy people so you just take the next free slot they have in their calendar. So if you are lucky you can get an appointment the next day. My w…

> then fail to register a bank account on time

Which you can do online in 20 minutes in more progressive countries.

Re: Founding a company in Germany: €9600, 152 days and I still can't send an invoice

#617

Post by kazinator »

This is one of the few things that doesn't suck in Canada.

In Canada you can easily and quickly obtain a GST number online. Furthermore, if you're self-employed or a small business owner, with a revenue of $30,000 or less, you are classified as a "small supplier", and don't have register and charge/collect GST.

For someone just starting out who will not be a small supplier, I believe the small supplier designation still provides a buffer zone. You can start invoicing immediately and sort out your registration later.

Re: Founding a company in Germany: €9600, 152 days and I still can't send an invoice

#618

Post by sarchertech »

CPLX wrote: post #411
paulsutter wrote: post #391

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While extreme cases are the easiest to imagine, in real life the plaintiff almost always argues to pierce the veil and the defendant always argues the opposite, and both sides earnestly believe that they are right.

Yeah but the veil doesn’t get pierced that’s super rare, which is more important than everyone’s emotional state.

Not in the US it’s not. LLCs don’t shield your assets from personal negligence. So if you have a single member LLC with no employees (very common), an awful lot of what prompt a successful suit will be because of negligence on your part.

Re: Founding a company in Germany: €9600, 152 days and I still can't send an invoice

#619

Post by victorbjorklund »

miroljub wrote: post #483
asyx wrote: post #471

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We have an UG for that. A GmbH is simply the wrong legal form for that sort of thing. You can create an UG with a single Euro on the bank account (and then immediately go bankrupt once you need to pay the notary).

No we don't. UG is still a GmbH bureaucratic monster which a bit less start capital. You still need to follow all taxation rules like GmbH, which costs you few more thousands per year (Bilanzeirung, Steuerberater, Abschluss, ...) just to be legaly compliant. American LLC taxation is as simple as or even simpler than Anlage EÜR. And you don't need a tax advisor to do it.

That’s what they said? That UG solves the issue of having to have a start capital.

Re: Founding a company in Germany: €9600, 152 days and I still can't send an invoice

#620

Post by glad_duck »

rob74 wrote: post #165

> Which leaves the only real question. Why 25,000 at all? It is my company and my risk. If I want to start with nothing, that is my call, not a toll the state collects before it will let me try. And the cheap door has a price of its own: to some clients, “UG” reads as “not serious,” and they would rather deal with a GmbH. The structure built to let me in quietly marks me for using it. The 25,000 is there to make sure…

It's funny, so it's not even an authorized capital? That one can usually be spent. So these 25K is simply put in the bank as a guarantee? For what exactly? Like if somebody wants go give me a loan they will look at this number and limit a loan to 25K so they are "guaranteed"? It's a great idea, put money in the bank, take 25K loan and ... what would my net assets be? What am I missing?
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