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Venezuela reveals $240B in debt it cannot pay (~$100B more than expected)

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Re: Venezuela reveals $240B in debt it cannot pay (~$100B more than expected)

#91

Post by kipchak »

mrguyorama wrote: post #83
kipchak wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The pro argument I find most convincing is that the US's interest is mostly in restricting oil going from Venezuela to China, which previously was the majority destination of of Venezuela's imports. A similar case can be made for Iran. China possibly expecting something to this effect has recently built up both it's coal and renewables capacity, as well as an extremely large SPR.

Any claim at all that Trump is running any sort of strategy against China blows right up the second you look at anything else he has done. All his bullshit market screwing, tariffs, poor diplomacy has pushed everyone right into China's sphere of influence. Instead of competing with the products China creates, we leave them out of our own market while the rest of the world continues to buy from China. The stupid as he…

imo this sort of strategy is not decided at the POTUS level, or at least there's consensus. For example during Biden's term the trade war largely persisted or expanded.

Competing in terms of production is realistically not an option (Triffin Dilemma, strong currency means exports other than tech/finance are inherently noncompetitive). Competitive exports would require giving up the dollar as a unilateral reserve currency, and China for the reverse reasons, at least for now, does not seem to want the Yuan to be a reserve currency. My personal read is both sides wish for something like the current system to persist but on more favorable terms.

I agree China has been actively taking steps for this scenario, but that they're continuing to make strides seems to indicate it is still an issue. I think we're still in the thick of it before a victor is conclusively decided either way.

Re: Venezuela reveals $240B in debt it cannot pay (~$100B more than expected)

#93

Post by NooneAtAll3 »

pphysch wrote: post #57
NooneAtAll3 wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

you can talk about "opposition still remains" as much as you want, but it's the right wing leaders who are winning elections

I'm not talking about elections that far right lunatics* allegedly win by 1%. I'm talking about what happens after. * Colombia's new guy boasted of strapping fireworks to cats, and married his wife when she turned 18 and he was almost 30.

> I'm talking about what happens after.

and what happens after is right-wing government in power of the country for the next N years

Re: Venezuela reveals $240B in debt it cannot pay (~$100B more than expected)

#94

Post by throwitaway222 »

ceejayoz wrote: post #78
throwitaway222 wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pure Communism - as in marxism, the default is Elites make choices on where to allocate funding. Nowhere in that manifest is a checks and balances system. So yes, in pure communism, it is a direction to fraud. Not Capitalism.

https://www.reddit.com/r/whoosh/

Ok ok thank you for the levity, I'm a bit autistic with this stuff.

Re: Venezuela reveals $240B in debt it cannot pay (~$100B more than expected)

#96

Post by pphysch »

NooneAtAll3 wrote: post #93
pphysch wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not talking about elections that far right lunatics* allegedly win by 1%. I'm talking about what happens after. * Colombia's new guy boasted of strapping fireworks to cats, and married his wife when she turned 18 and he was almost 30.

> I'm talking about what happens after. and what happens after is right-wing government in power of the country for the next N years

Kinda like how the USA respected the previous elections in Venezuela?

Re: Venezuela reveals $240B in debt it cannot pay (~$100B more than expected)

#97

Post by TMWNN »

ErneX wrote: post #88
mlmonkey wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You skipped the part where the "coupster moron" and his buddies pissed the US off by nationalizing oil industry and kicking the American companies out. That's what I am referring to.

We already nationalised the oil industry in 1976. You must be referring to something else. And who do you think was extracting oil these years there? Chevron is one of them.

>We already nationalised the oil industry in 1976. You must be referring to something else.

Don't bother. It's hopeless. They're obsessed with Orange Man Bad and won't listen to anyone who might actually know something about a topic they've been preprogrammed about.

The funniest thing to watch after the Maduro operation was the endless stream of leftist Redditards (but I repeat myself) rushing to /r/vzla to denounce Trump/USA/imperialism/fascism/capitalism, then backing away slowly https://giphy.com/clips/hamlet-the-simpsons-homer-bushes-O4B...> once they realize how massively supportive the subreddit is of getting rid of Maduro.

Or, as a post in the /r/buenosaires subreddit put it regarding exiled Velezuelans celebrating in that city, "The left demonstrating at the U.S. embassy and progressivism militating against intervention in networks while Venezuelans celebrate at the obelisk is the best postcard of the transformation of progressivism into an intellectual bubble on the margins of common sense."

Re: Venezuela reveals $240B in debt it cannot pay (~$100B more than expected)

#98

Post by TMWNN »

dist-epoch wrote: post #68

They should do an Argentina. Every 10 years or so Argentina defaults on it's debt. The next day banks/hedge funds line up to loan it money again. The ways of finance are mysterious. > The country has defaulted on external sovereign debt nine times since independence: in 1827, 1890, 1951, 1956, 1982, 1989, 2001, 2014, and 2020. Three of those defaults occurred since the year 2001. https://maseconomics.com/argentinas-r…

>Every 10 years or so Argentina defaults on it's debt. The next day banks/hedge funds line up to loan it money again.

>The ways of finance are mysterious.

James Grant's Bagehot and Liaquat Ahamed's 1873 both talk about how, no matter how often South American and Middle Eastern countries in the 1860s and 1870s defaulted on their debt, European investors lined up to loan them more money. (In especially egregious cases like Egypt, British and French experts took important jobs at the insistence of the lenders to curtail the extravagant spending; while corruption decreased, the experts were very well-paid.)

Re: Venezuela reveals $240B in debt it cannot pay (~$100B more than expected)

#99

Post by jst1fthsdys »

znpy wrote: post #23
legitster wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's really absurd how well the Maduros kidnapping plan worked. Without even changing the party in power, Trump can pretend Venezuela is reformed and do all of the economic normalization a liberal president never would have gotten away with. But the back-to-back policy disasters are otherwise a good reminder that a broken clock is only right twice a day.

> It's really absurd how well the Maduros kidnapping plan worked. It's almost like people currently in the white house know what they're doing, right? Who would have thought! /s

They were able to bribe those around Maduro and they gave him up. Thats why it went well. Anytime we can bribe our way to victory, it usually works.

When we can't (Iran), well, it starts looking like they have zero clue what they are doing.

Re: Venezuela reveals $240B in debt it cannot pay (~$100B more than expected)

#100

Post by watwut »

breppp wrote: post #76
watwut wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, but did you considered that democracy was never a goal? Republican party is in full swing to destroy American democracy, why would they seek to create one in Venezuela? Bribes and oil were the goal. Consolidation of allied dictator was goal. That worked.

That's not a bad policy, considering America's disastrous history of spreading democracy and then finding out those voters want different shades of fascism

America has more history of destroying democracies and actively proping/helping dictators then of trying to create democracies.

It did made germany democratic after wwii. That really happened. But then it has stream of helping dictators and killing democracies while being acting confused when locals did not appreciated it ... and when different violent movements joined the game.

America is even supporting fascists parties all around Europe right now. If they win, it is going to be mainly eu dysfunction. But it will also be true that America actively sponsored fascists and actively undermined democracy in Europe.

> spreading democracy and then finding out those voters want different shades of fascism

Where exactly this happened, really?

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