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OpenAI unveils its first custom chip, built by Broadcom

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Re: OpenAI unveils its first custom chip, built by Broadcom

#121

Post by empath75 »

Catloafdev wrote: post #96
nickpinkston wrote: post #86

This is very cool to see - seems like soooo much efficiency waiting to be unlocked at the chip level. What's everyone think of Taalas? They're actually burning the LLM model into the silicon, with some onboard memory for fine-tuning. They claim huge cost / latency wins. Super fast demo live at: https://chatjimmy.ai/ https://taalas.com/ https://www.reddit.com/r/singularity/comments/1r9frzk/taalas...

It'd be cool to see more of this type of thing, but I have to imagine the ability for it to be updated to a brand-new model as new models come out is limited. If that is the case, it's going to be an extremely hard sell.

You don't need SOTA models for all tasks, and being able to do more routine tasks at something like 10% of the cost and 70x speed unlocks LLM use for things that are just unthinkable now (bulk classification tasks, real time speech interaction, etc)

Re: OpenAI unveils its first custom chip, built by Broadcom

#122

Post by deweywsu »

With the pace of AI, and with AI helping to pave the way for faster/better AI, I keep wondering if hardware like this will become obsolete well before it has a meaningful ROI. Huge AI models can be run with less resources already through quantization and offloading, but that's just the beginning. One day, maybe not far from now, a breakthrough will allow huge LLMs (say 200B in size) to run well on an old 5 year old Dell desktop. Think that's crazy? Look at the size of the first hard drives. The IBM 350 was a disk with 50 platters, 24 inches in diameter, that held 3.5Mb, and was leased for today's equivalent of $35K.

https://www.computerhistory.org/storageengine/first-commerci...

Compare that to a multi-terabyte ssd. Now apply that improvement to how an LLM is architected and run now. With AI assisting, it won't be long before a leap occurs and these data centers with all their current ultra-cutting edge Nvidia cards are nearly obsolete overnight.

Re: OpenAI unveils its first custom chip, built by Broadcom

#123

Post by fecal_henge »

FanaHOVA wrote: post #76
sharkjacobs wrote: post #61

> Developed from design to production in nine months, accelerated by OpenAI’s models > the use of OpenAI models to accelerate parts of the design and optimization process. I wish there was more about this. As is I kind of have to assume that this is just meaningless marketing, like saying development was accelerated by Microsoft Office or their 5k LG Ultrafine 40-inch monitors. Like, if this was as big a deal as it k…

NVIDIA already designs most of their chips using AI. Why would you assume it's meaningless marketing?

Perhaps because they are suggesting what they are doing is novel.

Re: OpenAI unveils its first custom chip, built by Broadcom

#124

Post by [deleted] »

ses1984 wrote: post #101
Aurornis wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The hardware description languages (HDL) used in chip development are like programming languages. The existing models understand them and can do a lot with them. You don’t need to have separate, specialty models designed for this work to use LLMs in chip design workflows. Design verification also involves a lot of traditional programming which benefits from LLMs. So it’s not meaningless at all. You could download som…

The question isn’t whether or not they employed a particular tool, the question is how big of an impact did it have.

[deleted]

Re: OpenAI unveils its first custom chip, built by Broadcom

#125

Post by zgao »

sharkjacobs wrote: post #61

> Developed from design to production in nine months, accelerated by OpenAI’s models > the use of OpenAI models to accelerate parts of the design and optimization process. I wish there was more about this. As is I kind of have to assume that this is just meaningless marketing, like saying development was accelerated by Microsoft Office or their 5k LG Ultrafine 40-inch monitors. Like, if this was as big a deal as it k…

Chip CEO here. It really depends on what "design" or "production" means. Does "design" mean that the design was complete? Does "production" mean the beginning of production, i.e. tapeout? If measuring from RTL-freeze to tapeout, this is a fairly typical (even somewhat unimpressive) timeline (accounting for some unexpected issues) for a large, complex 3nm chip. If measuring from concept (no RTL at all, block diagram of architecture) to tapeout, this is an amazing timeline. The truth is probably somewhere in between. A more concrete statement would use actual technical milestones and gates.

Re: OpenAI unveils its first custom chip, built by Broadcom

#126

Post by oceanplexian »

dofm wrote: post #68
sharkjacobs wrote: post #61

> Developed from design to production in nine months, accelerated by OpenAI’s models > the use of OpenAI models to accelerate parts of the design and optimization process. I wish there was more about this. As is I kind of have to assume that this is just meaningless marketing, like saying development was accelerated by Microsoft Office or their 5k LG Ultrafine 40-inch monitors. Like, if this was as big a deal as it k…

Right. There are two possible meanings and shades in-between: 1) OpenAI genuinely have AI technologies that can improve chip design (bold, unlikely claim, needs evidence) 2) OpenAI designed test/verification models and kernels that could be run on the simulated hardware to test its performance As you and others have said, it's hard to trust when they are happy to write something that could easily only mean the latter…

> OpenAI genuinely have AI technologies that can improve chip design (bold, unlikely claim, needs evidence)

Why is that a bold and unlikely claim?

Are you saying that AI, which has been proven to cure diseases, solve our hardest math problems, write complex computer code and generate entire generated worlds and HD video from a simple prompt would somehow be like, my bad, I guess I can't design chips?

Re: OpenAI unveils its first custom chip, built by Broadcom

#127

Post by simonebrunozzi »

deweywsu wrote: post #122

With the pace of AI, and with AI helping to pave the way for faster/better AI, I keep wondering if hardware like this will become obsolete well before it has a meaningful ROI. Huge AI models can be run with less resources already through quantization and offloading, but that's just the beginning. One day, maybe not far from now, a breakthrough will allow huge LLMs (say 200B in size) to run well on an old 5 year old D…

Interesting comment, but the comparison with hard disk drives is probably unfair.

The IBM 350 was commercialized 70 years ago; it took 70 years for someone like you to be able to compare that to a multi-TB SSD.

Furthermore, nothing says that Moore's Law will necessarily apply to LLMs, for decades to come.

Re: OpenAI unveils its first custom chip, built by Broadcom

#128

Post by MangoCoffee »

cheap token is more important now than ever. Chinese open weight model is getting pretty good. the real cost of AI adaption will come down to who (China or US) can provide cheap token for consumers and companies. Microsoft consider DeepSeek for their cowork is an example and now OpenAI with its own AI inference chip.

Re: OpenAI unveils its first custom chip, built by Broadcom

#129

Post by knicholes »

Aurornis wrote: post #95
sharkjacobs wrote: post #61

> Developed from design to production in nine months, accelerated by OpenAI’s models > the use of OpenAI models to accelerate parts of the design and optimization process. I wish there was more about this. As is I kind of have to assume that this is just meaningless marketing, like saying development was accelerated by Microsoft Office or their 5k LG Ultrafine 40-inch monitors. Like, if this was as big a deal as it k…

The hardware description languages (HDL) used in chip development are like programming languages. The existing models understand them and can do a lot with them. You don’t need to have separate, specialty models designed for this work to use LLMs in chip design workflows. Design verification also involves a lot of traditional programming which benefits from LLMs. So it’s not meaningless at all. You could download som…

I tried making a button using Claude entirely (including the 3D printed enclosure) and it effed up pretty hard with the traces and the header spacing. The project was a big red arcade button that plays the "ah-my-groin.mp3" when pushed (from Simpsons). It did cool work on saving battery life, and the 3d enclosure was awesome, but yeah, I'm convinced I'd have to do another version or two of the custom chip until it came back right. I used a Blender MCP for the 3d modeling. I used a KiCAD MCP server for the chip design/validation.

I think we're not there yet. I've been meaning to look at this flux.ai to see if it has the prompts/workflow worked out better than what I was able to cobble together in a few hours. Maybe Alteryx's MCP server would have been better. I'll try that this weekend for another board I've got.

Re: OpenAI unveils its first custom chip, built by Broadcom

#130

Post by zerohp »

flyinglizard wrote: post #48

I call BS. It’s probably a white label around existing Broadcom IP, impossible to go from zero to this kind of chip in nine months. I doubt OpenAI had any significant contribution.

That’s exactly what this is.

9 months to production is completely impossible anyway.

9 months from design to early samples is probably impossible given than TSMC takes 3 months after tape out to produce them. Then it’s up to the customer to qualify and revise for production. TSMC doesn’t do that.

There’s no AI that makes this happen in 9 months.

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