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Venezuela reveals $240B in debt it cannot pay (~$100B more than expected)

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Re: Venezuela reveals $240B in debt it cannot pay (~$100B more than expected)

#41

Post by swarnie »

ozgrakkurt wrote: post #33
legitster wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's really absurd how well the Maduros kidnapping plan worked. Without even changing the party in power, Trump can pretend Venezuela is reformed and do all of the economic normalization a liberal president never would have gotten away with. But the back-to-back policy disasters are otherwise a good reminder that a broken clock is only right twice a day.

> economic normalization You mean the looting

Listen Citizen, how else do you expect to soften Cuba up for democratic liberation?

An ICE officer has been dispatched to your location

Re: Venezuela reveals $240B in debt it cannot pay (~$100B more than expected)

#42

Post by alephnerd »

millipede wrote: post #21

> On top of that comes what is owed to oil companies and suppliers, claims stemming from expropriations under Chávez and the outstanding loans from China and Russia. It seems like China or Russia would expect to be paid not in dollars, but in Oil Wells and Refineries. Why would they accept restructuring of the debt instead of repo'ing the assets?

> It seems like China or Russia would expect to be paid not in dollars, but in Oil Wells and Refineries. Why would they accept restructuring of the debt instead of repo'ing the assets?

Because a number of those assets are still owned by other countries that paused FDI due to Trump's Venezuela sanctions in 2018-19.

For example, India was Venezuela's largest oil exporting customer following Maduro's election with it's state-owned (ONGC, Indian Oil, Oil India) and private sector (Reliance) majors being given sweetheart extraction deals that India had to freeze due to sanctions.

Brazilian players like J&F Group also did the same thing with Venezuela's ONG industry as did Spanish players like Reposol.

Now that the Venezuela sanctions regime is over, those assets which were continued to be owned by those countries are being restarted by those countries.

The biggest winners of Maduro's capture was basically Brazil, India, and Spain as their companies were able to restart operations minimizing China's near monopoly in Venezuela after the expanded sanctions regime kicked off in 2018 while being nimbler than American players who essentially have to start from scratch.

Re: Venezuela reveals $240B in debt it cannot pay (~$100B more than expected)

#43

Post by legitster »

refulgentis wrote: post #27
legitster wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's really absurd how well the Maduros kidnapping plan worked. Without even changing the party in power, Trump can pretend Venezuela is reformed and do all of the economic normalization a liberal president never would have gotten away with. But the back-to-back policy disasters are otherwise a good reminder that a broken clock is only right twice a day.

Are they doing any normalization? I've fallen behind and assumed it just became dictator apparatus protection as long as there was flattery, i.e. tell us we're in charge and we'll let you ship oil wherever.

Kinda, if you're the oil industry you are allowed to invest in Venezuela. But in a deep irony it seems like the oil industry is mostly uninterested.

I kinda wonder if the White House has just forgotten about Venezuela - there's not any clear reason they are still under general sanctions.

Re: Venezuela reveals $240B in debt it cannot pay (~$100B more than expected)

#44

Post by cs702 »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #37
cs702 wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The legal claims from expropriation, I get that... but everything else was actually borrowed . Whether the form was debt issuance or unpaid accounts payable, the rest actually was borrowed. It's kind of an "impressive accomplishment" in my view.

> doesn't matter if the form was debt issuance or unpaid accounts payable, it was borrowed It matters by whom it was lent. Caracas telling China to fuck off is pretty easy right now. Less so if it’s an American investor. If anyone has an outline of to whom the other hundreds of billions are owed, I’d be curious to see it.

> If anyone has an outline of to whom the other hundreds of billions are owed, I’d be curious to see it.

Me too. That's one of my questions. The other questions I have are about the shocking misuse of funds.

Re: Venezuela reveals $240B in debt it cannot pay (~$100B more than expected)

#45

Post by mullingitover »

swarnie wrote: post #41
ozgrakkurt wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> economic normalization You mean the looting

Listen Citizen, how else do you expect to soften Cuba up for democratic liberation? An ICE officer has been dispatched to your location

Cuba just...gave up last week[1]. Wasn't even above-the-fold news.

There'd be no point in any kind of boots on the ground invasion when they just did the thing that the invasion would've tried to accomplish.

[1] https://www.pbs.org/newshour/world/cuba-passes-sweeping-free...

Re: Venezuela reveals $240B in debt it cannot pay (~$100B more than expected)

#46

Post by pphysch »

legitster wrote: post #14
adjejmxbdjdn wrote: post #4

Smart move to acknowledge this and go for the debt restructuring while the current U.S. president sees Venezuela as his major foreign policy win. The government will be able to leverage that to get the U.S. government to push for far more favorable terms for Venezuela than it ever would have otherwise.

It's really absurd how well the Maduros kidnapping plan worked. Without even changing the party in power, Trump can pretend Venezuela is reformed and do all of the economic normalization a liberal president never would have gotten away with. But the back-to-back policy disasters are otherwise a good reminder that a broken clock is only right twice a day.

It's way too early to declare total victory. US also swiftly deposed Chavez, but Chavismo came roaring back.

Maduro himself is unlikely to escape his abduction, but the actual power structures and grassroots opposition to Washington's totalitarianism remains across LatAm.

Re: Venezuela reveals $240B in debt it cannot pay (~$100B more than expected)

#48

Post by panick21_ »

sourcegrift wrote: post #13
adjejmxbdjdn wrote: post #4

Smart move to acknowledge this and go for the debt restructuring while the current U.S. president sees Venezuela as his major foreign policy win. The government will be able to leverage that to get the U.S. government to push for far more favorable terms for Venezuela than it ever would have otherwise.

Like him or hate him, Venezuela has been quite literally a fabulous win.

Yeah, slightly changed market for something that didn't matter that much to begin with. Its was a successful military operation. A fabulous win is WW2, ending the Cold War or things like that.

Re: Venezuela reveals $240B in debt it cannot pay (~$100B more than expected)

#49

Post by NooneAtAll3 »

pphysch wrote: post #46
legitster wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's really absurd how well the Maduros kidnapping plan worked. Without even changing the party in power, Trump can pretend Venezuela is reformed and do all of the economic normalization a liberal president never would have gotten away with. But the back-to-back policy disasters are otherwise a good reminder that a broken clock is only right twice a day.

It's way too early to declare total victory. US also swiftly deposed Chavez, but Chavismo came roaring back. Maduro himself is unlikely to escape his abduction, but the actual power structures and grassroots opposition to Washington's totalitarianism remains across LatAm.

you can talk about "opposition still remains" as much as you want, but it's the right wing leaders who are winning elections

Re: Venezuela reveals $240B in debt it cannot pay (~$100B more than expected)

#50

Post by rurp »

sourcegrift wrote: post #13
adjejmxbdjdn wrote: post #4

Smart move to acknowledge this and go for the debt restructuring while the current U.S. president sees Venezuela as his major foreign policy win. The government will be able to leverage that to get the U.S. government to push for far more favorable terms for Venezuela than it ever would have otherwise.

Like him or hate him, Venezuela has been quite literally a fabulous win.

Fabulous win in what ways, and for who? I'm genuinely asking, as I haven't followed the country much. From what I have read the same corrupt repressive regime, the one that ran the country into the ground, is still in place while the democratic opposition that had shown some life in recent years has gone silent.
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