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Founding a company in Germany: €9600, 152 days and I still can't send an invoice

paolino.me

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Re: Founding a company in Germany: €9600, 152 days and I still can't send an invoice

#321

Post by coffeebeqn »

Zak wrote: post #274
rob74 wrote: post #165

> Which leaves the only real question. Why 25,000 at all? It is my company and my risk. If I want to start with nothing, that is my call, not a toll the state collects before it will let me try. And the cheap door has a price of its own: to some clients, “UG” reads as “not serious,” and they would rather deal with a GmbH. The structure built to let me in quietly marks me for using it. The 25,000 is there to make sure…

> A company that starts with nothing wouldn't be a GmbH (limited liability company), it would be a GoH (company without liability), and there's a good reason why those don't exist... Those do exist in other countries. An LLC in the USA does not generally need to have a certain amount of assets. Such a company is more or less without liability until it has some assets; the worst case for its owners when it comes to a…

> sometimes shit happens and debts go unpaid

What’s wild is that this is pre-debt. The banks will have their own risk math for you so it’ll be a completely separate set of hoops before you get to be in debt as a company. Most will not even talk to you if you have 0€ in the business account. I don’t feel like a company with no assets or income can do that much damage to their societies.

Also as a small company in the EU I have to have liability insurance for the company for any major clients so the insurance company also will make you jump through further hoops.

Re: Founding a company in Germany: €9600, 152 days and I still can't send an invoice

#323

Post by romanovcode »

I was waiting for 3 months for my VAT ID to arrive. Then I just called my finanzamt and told them why I have no vat ID. I think they just forgot, finanzamt said over the phone that "they opened a ticket" and 2 weeks later exactly as promised in the beginning it was in my post.

Re: Founding a company in Germany: €9600, 152 days and I still can't send an invoice

#325

Post by stop50 »

petesergeant wrote: post #219
rob74 wrote: post #165

> Which leaves the only real question. Why 25,000 at all? It is my company and my risk. If I want to start with nothing, that is my call, not a toll the state collects before it will let me try. And the cheap door has a price of its own: to some clients, “UG” reads as “not serious,” and they would rather deal with a GmbH. The structure built to let me in quietly marks me for using it. The 25,000 is there to make sure…

> A company that starts with nothing wouldn't be a GmbH (limited liability company), it would be a GoH (company without liability), and there's a good reason why those don't exist... What's the good reason? In the UK I can started a Ltd with £1 of share capital, about £100 of fees, and filling out a form online. I will be shielded from personal liability if it goes tits up unless I've broken the law, knowingly traded…

what you probably mean is an OHG, an Offene Handelsgesellschaft It is one of the simplest form a group of people can found. All members are liable with their personal assets if the OHG files for bankruptcy or is unable to meet its obligations.

Re: Founding a company in Germany: €9600, 152 days and I still can't send an invoice

#327

Post by spacington »

nish1500 wrote: post #319
rob74 wrote: post #165

> Which leaves the only real question. Why 25,000 at all? It is my company and my risk. If I want to start with nothing, that is my call, not a toll the state collects before it will let me try. And the cheap door has a price of its own: to some clients, “UG” reads as “not serious,” and they would rather deal with a GmbH. The structure built to let me in quietly marks me for using it. The 25,000 is there to make sure…

High initial capital requirements have repeatedly proven to be more detrimental than beneficial ( https://mariusring.github.io/web/BacherFagerengRingWold_Sele... ). Germany is an outlier in wanting to keep the barriers high. Running a business in Germany is for a closed inner circle. The apparatus is not meant for broke college students turning their weekend project into a company.

Why not?

Depends on your product and expectations of your customers.

B2C: I don't care what company structure you are.

Re: Founding a company in Germany: €9600, 152 days and I still can't send an invoice

#328

Post by meta_gunslinger »

robtro wrote: post #65

Germany is one of the worst countries when it comes to bureaucracy nothing is fast here if you go the legal path and stay within the law (which is mostly for small people big players have different ways) and as you see everything costs a lot so if you are founding a pure online business do yourself a favor and incorporate somewhere else and if you still live in Germany look into licensing or subcontracting yourself t…

It's the scientific slash managerial state brought to you by Anglo-German leftist thinkers of the 19th century. Enjoy utopia.

Re: Founding a company in Germany: €9600, 152 days and I still can't send an invoice

#329

Post by petesergeant »

_fat_santa wrote: post #276
WarmWash wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are jealous of the US system where you can create an LLC in one hour for $200, and by the next day be doing business with all your personal assets isolated.

The US system is built to support entrepreneurship while the EU system broadly is to support the consumer and employee. The US will never be able to match the EU's consumer and employee protections and the EU will never be able to match the US's ease of doing business, because to have one you have to fundamentally give in on the other. Depending on who you ask, one system is wildly better than the other, but at the e…

> the EU system

The issue in question is a Germanic system, not an EU one. Outside of Germany, Austria, Luxembourg, most EU countries are far more sensible with capitalization requirements.

Re: Founding a company in Germany: €9600, 152 days and I still can't send an invoice

#330

Post by jarek83 »

As others commented already - the author does not seem to understand principal idea behind running a business - a company is not something "yours", because you can just simply sell your shares or be moved out from the company by other partners.

Company is a state's legal entity given to designated people to manage (the forming person/partners) and profit from doing it successfully. If those people fail they have to follow strict rules (liquidation) or they will be sued personally for misconduct. That entity gives much more possibilities because it is limited liability - part of which is held by the state, and part by the running founders.

If you want something yours, you go with the sole proprietorship.

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