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Founding a company in Germany: €9600, 152 days and I still can't send an invoice

paolino.me

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Re: Founding a company in Germany: €9600, 152 days and I still can't send an invoice

#211

Post by mpweiher »

scarmig wrote: post #41
sevenzero wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So basically you go for the legal stuff only really big companies use (instead of changing once its necessary) because you dont believe in your own product and dont want to be held liable, got it.

Do people in Germany see limited liability as some kind of crazy thing only a scammer would want?

Nope.

But the GmbH & Co KG setup the poster wants is not needed for limited liability.

You get that with a plain GmbH (or UG), which is much, much simpler to set up.

Re: Founding a company in Germany: €9600, 152 days and I still can't send an invoice

#212

Post by _zoltan_ »

markvdb wrote: post #125
GL26 wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Once had a call with a Netherlands founder (i am european too), and told me "Declare your company in Delaware, everything will be much easier"

That could work _if_ your company has actual substance in the US. Otherwise you just expose yourself to much bigger problems.

like?

Re: Founding a company in Germany: €9600, 152 days and I still can't send an invoice

#213

Post by tomschwiha »

preya2k wrote: post #98
InsideOutSanta wrote: post #54

> Which leaves the only real question. Why 25,000 at all? It is my company and my risk. If I want to start with nothing, that is my call, not a toll the state collects before it will let me try. But it was his call. As the author has already pointed out, he could have started a sole proprietorship, but he did not want to take on that risk. The 25'000 is because it's not his risk if he starts a GmbH, it's the GmbH's r…

Yes, can confirm. You can start a GmbH with exactly half of it (12.500€). And the money does NOT need to stay locked on the bank account. You can spend it for company purposes (but NOT for founder wages).

Founder wage is a company purpose, else it wouldn't be allowed. Its not your personal money anymore once deposited into the companies account.

Re: Founding a company in Germany: €9600, 152 days and I still can't send an invoice

#214

Post by carlosjobim »

markvdb wrote: post #125
GL26 wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Once had a call with a Netherlands founder (i am european too), and told me "Declare your company in Delaware, everything will be much easier"

That could work _if_ your company has actual substance in the US. Otherwise you just expose yourself to much bigger problems.

Such as?

Re: Founding a company in Germany: €9600, 152 days and I still can't send an invoice

#215

Post by mpweiher »

Aurornis wrote: post #80
Bombthecat wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He wanted to go all out and maximise "company form". Same as optimizing your website for hundred of thousands of visitors even if you have only like one hundred visitors...

If the parent comment is correct and this form is necessary for personal financial protection, I wouldn’t consider that “all out”. That’s the bare minimum consideration for a viable company structure.

It's not.

Re: Founding a company in Germany: €9600, 152 days and I still can't send an invoice

#216

Post by anonzzzies »

robtro wrote: post #65

Germany is one of the worst countries when it comes to bureaucracy nothing is fast here if you go the legal path and stay within the law (which is mostly for small people big players have different ways) and as you see everything costs a lot so if you are founding a pure online business do yourself a favor and incorporate somewhere else and if you still live in Germany look into licensing or subcontracting yourself t…

I do not know an EU or Asian country that doesn’t have a similar paperwork misery; I had a company in DE and in many others; you won’t survive in Spain as SL if you are small and follow the rules either. So literally no one does. No different in DE. We never got fined or even reprimanded. Largest fine in DE we got was for charging the wrong VAT for some items and that was not really that bad compared to all the tax breaks we got.

Re: Founding a company in Germany: €9600, 152 days and I still can't send an invoice

#217

Post by fakedang »

ExpertAdvisor01 wrote: post #157
robtro wrote: post #65

Germany is one of the worst countries when it comes to bureaucracy nothing is fast here if you go the legal path and stay within the law (which is mostly for small people big players have different ways) and as you see everything costs a lot so if you are founding a pure online business do yourself a favor and incorporate somewhere else and if you still live in Germany look into licensing or subcontracting yourself t…

Don't incorporate somewhere else it will only lead to disaster. The company will end up being German tax resident anyways due to management and control being in Germany as you live in Germany . Then you have to be compliant in 2 jurisdictions (file forms/balance sheets in both countries etc..) and worst case you could become subject to double taxation (if there is no agreement). The optimal solution is just to leave…

Can't you just incorporate a Wyoming LLC (zero corporate tax + federal tax because you're non-resident in the US) then just open a Wise account?

Wyoming LLC gives passthrough taxation, and because you're in Germany, you'll be subject to German corporate and personal taxes alone, I presume?

Edit: changed from just personal tax to personal+corporate

Re: Founding a company in Germany: €9600, 152 days and I still can't send an invoice

#218

Post by egorfine »

tdi wrote: post #89
VadimPR wrote: post #8

Before Europe gets lumped in as one country, founding a company in Netherlands and Sweden, speaking from personal experience, is a breeze. Although Sweden is a bit strange in the fact that banks have as much equal say as the government authority does in you starting a company, and if they don't want you as a customer, they can simply deny the right for your company to start!

Same in Poland. Almost 100% things regarding companies or personal things you can do online. Self employment company can be set even via bank app. Ltd a bit longer online (unless you need a custom ltd agreement).

Can confirm. JDG registration took like a couple of days and I didn't need to get my ass off my chair.

Re: Founding a company in Germany: €9600, 152 days and I still can't send an invoice

#219

Post by petesergeant »

rob74 wrote: post #165

> Which leaves the only real question. Why 25,000 at all? It is my company and my risk. If I want to start with nothing, that is my call, not a toll the state collects before it will let me try. And the cheap door has a price of its own: to some clients, “UG” reads as “not serious,” and they would rather deal with a GmbH. The structure built to let me in quietly marks me for using it. The 25,000 is there to make sure…

> A company that starts with nothing wouldn't be a GmbH (limited liability company), it would be a GoH (company without liability), and there's a good reason why those don't exist...

What's the good reason? In the UK I can started a Ltd with £1 of share capital, about £100 of fees, and filling out a form online. I will be shielded from personal liability if it goes tits up unless I've broken the law, knowingly traded insolvent, or otherwise been an idiot.

The wider thread appears to be Germans commenting that it's unthinkable that such a thing could exist, and thus it's all the author's fault.

Re: Founding a company in Germany: €9600, 152 days and I still can't send an invoice

#220

Post by gregorygoc »

lucamark wrote: post #144

Europe will suffocate under the weight of its own bureaucracy. The sad thing is that it is not new to me, I've heard so many stories like this one. This is the kind of friction that makes founders incorporate elsewhere. Also, a founder spending months coordinating lawyers banks and tax advisors is not talking to customers or building the product. The opportunity cost here is huge. Anyway, you are pretty close. One mo…

Ah yes, Germany == Europe.
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