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Founding a company in Germany: €9600, 152 days and I still can't send an invoice

paolino.me

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Re: Founding a company in Germany: €9600, 152 days and I still can't send an invoice

#151

Post by ExpertAdvisor01 »

earcar wrote: post #109
robtro wrote: post #65

Germany is one of the worst countries when it comes to bureaucracy nothing is fast here if you go the legal path and stay within the law (which is mostly for small people big players have different ways) and as you see everything costs a lot so if you are founding a pure online business do yourself a favor and incorporate somewhere else and if you still live in Germany look into licensing or subcontracting yourself t…

I have yet to find the mythical efficiency everyone was talking about. Trains, Berlin Brandenburg Airport, this. It's rules and adherence to rules, more than efficiency, that I've found in my experience.

Another recent example : https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2026/06/10/germanys-h...

They laid 600+km of cables wrong ultimately delaying the project by 6 years.

Re: Founding a company in Germany: €9600, 152 days and I still can't send an invoice

#152

Post by martijnvds »

johndough wrote: post #68
sevenzero wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is one of the most complicated forms. A GmbH alone is good enough in 99.99% of cases, and its usually done really quick. Also, if you believe in your product there usually isn't a reason to go for a GmbH this early. You can send invoices a lot earlier with just a eK or GbR. Its not an issue to adhere with your private money if your product isn't causing damages.

> Its not an issue to adhere with your private money if your product isn't causing damages. Might happen really easily though. E.g. you install some package which has been compromised, infecting your software product and suddenly all your customer's systems are cryptolocked and you are on the hock for millions of €€€. Or your db crashes in new and creative ways and your backups don't work for some reason and now your…

Isn't that what (liability) insurance is for?

(if there's anything Germans like as much as bureaucracy it's insurance)

Re: Founding a company in Germany: €9600, 152 days and I still can't send an invoice

#153

Post by randomstate »

I gave up on trying to set up an company in Germany. Founding is the 1st side of the coin, but the other side of the coin are the complexities of closing your company (which takes at least a year as well) and exit tax (you might get taxed 6-7 figures when moving abroad even if you don't really make reasonable money).

Re: Founding a company in Germany: €9600, 152 days and I still can't send an invoice

#155

Post by earcar »

weinzierl wrote: post #126

Not to defend German bureaucracy but if you are serious and want results this is not how you do it. If you want a GmbH quickly there are specialized lawyers that maintain a pool of freshly founded GmbH's for you to buy. Everything is set up for you to start. If you don't like certain things like the company name, you can always change it later. That being said, I know plenty of people who founded their GmbH themselve…

> there are specialized lawyers that maintain a pool of freshly founded GmbH's for you to buy

It doesn't sound easy nor cheap to buy a company and change the company name.

UG & Co. KG has a couple of advantages and while it did add some money and time to the table, it doesn't change the story.

Notaries in the US are the price of a dinner. Many people have waited up to 6 months to receive their VAT ID from Berlin.

Re: Founding a company in Germany: €9600, 152 days and I still can't send an invoice

#156

Post by AndroTux »

philipwhiuk wrote: post #99
AmazingTurtle wrote: post #57

I founded a UG with 2 friends. 7.500 capital, 2.500 each. From that money, we paid the notary. We drafted with chatgpt on our own and presented it to an attorney for review, ~300€. Notary ~1.200€. All in all, we are 1.5 years in, we still have ~3.000 left from that 7.500 capital. Obviously you're doing something wrong

He wanted a GmbH

No, he wanted an UG & Co. KG

Re: Founding a company in Germany: €9600, 152 days and I still can't send an invoice

#157

Post by ExpertAdvisor01 »

robtro wrote: post #65

Germany is one of the worst countries when it comes to bureaucracy nothing is fast here if you go the legal path and stay within the law (which is mostly for small people big players have different ways) and as you see everything costs a lot so if you are founding a pure online business do yourself a favor and incorporate somewhere else and if you still live in Germany look into licensing or subcontracting yourself t…

Don't incorporate somewhere else it will only lead to disaster. The company will end up being German tax resident anyways due to management and control being in Germany as you live in Germany .

Then you have to be compliant in 2 jurisdictions (file forms/balance sheets in both countries etc..) and worst case you could become subject to double taxation (if there is no agreement).

The optimal solution is just to leave Germany .

Re: Founding a company in Germany: €9600, 152 days and I still can't send an invoice

#158

Post by ExpertAdvisor01 »

nopurpose wrote: post #132
robtro wrote: post #65

Germany is one of the worst countries when it comes to bureaucracy nothing is fast here if you go the legal path and stay within the law (which is mostly for small people big players have different ways) and as you see everything costs a lot so if you are founding a pure online business do yourself a favor and incorporate somewhere else and if you still live in Germany look into licensing or subcontracting yourself t…

Doesn't Germany have Controled Foreign Company rules?

Yes , but cfc rules are mostly targeted against passive income and exclude active companies. They wouldn't matter in that case anyway as he would shift the tax residency to Germany by managing & controlling the company from Germany.

Re: Founding a company in Germany: €9600, 152 days and I still can't send an invoice

#160

Post by KomoD »

yoavm wrote: post #87
something765478 wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Although Sweden is a bit strange in the fact that banks have as much equal say as the government authority does in you starting a company, and if they don't want you as a customer, they can simply deny the right for your company to start! Wait, how does that work? Are you saying that if the bank doesn't like me, instead of just denying me a loan, they can convince other banks not to loan to me as well?

It's not about a loan. You have to put ~2,000 EUR in your company account in order to start it, and they might refuse opening an account for you. They're not going to talk with other banks, but if they have a good reason to think working with you is going to be difficult, chances are other banks will think so as well.

That's actually not the only option. You can also transfer property (apportegendom) to the company, such as vehicles, machines, patents/copyright/trademarks, real estate or pretty much anything of value, to use as your share capital.

You just have to specify it when registering the company, and have an accountant certify the value.

But obviously, it's more annoying and you have to keep track of depreciation.

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