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Why eval startups fail (2025)

thomasliao.com

21–30 of 66 posts

Re: Why eval startups fail (2025)

#21
post #6

If you look at the history of software engineering, the ones that made the most money were usually not the companies that built the applications themselves, but the ones that built the tools to verify, deploy, and build them, such as CI/CD, static analysis tools, and testing frameworks. Personally, I agree with the Goodhart problem, but isn't the reason Eval startups fail because they try to sell an 'evaluation servi…

The "shovels for gold miners" analogy is generally a good one. It applies to Nvidia, for example. It doesn't generally apply to developers though. Developer tooling is notoriously difficult to monetize. Developers themselves are a shovel.

Re: Why eval startups fail (2025)

#22
I think there's gonna be (or perhaps already is) a huge demand for evaling individual systems. Many countries are starting to adopt some criteria for LLM usage for public use, and I doubt govs are gonna develop in-house knowhow for this. These will likely form some kinds of "independent auditor" models, as the system provider has too strong conflicts of intetest.

It's probably not gonna be exactly glorious work, but designing expert evals settings and collecting and crunching the data for quality assurance and control is going to be needed.

Re: Why eval startups fail (2025)

#24

What's an eval?

IMHO - In an AI context an "eval" is answering the question - "Is this AI / LLM call helping me or is doing the right thing?"

AI is not deterministic like regular code, so imagine you use it for "search" (RAG) or for summarizing or for classifying emails etc. How do you know it is giving you the right results? In this context, AI evals are an important idea and very often neglected.

You can use an initial "dataset" to evaluate your prompt and AI calls + code (think test cases), this dataset will of-course be curated by humans. But as the software is used, you want to incorporate, real production data as well and run the evaluation pre and post launch. Sounds simple, but can get complicated specially since this area is new and as the post mentioned there are too many players and options out there (since everyone thought this is a money maker).

Re: Why eval startups fail (2025)

#25
Worked or tried to work for a few places that ended eval work in the 2010s for previous-gen systems. Most didn’t pay for it, thanks to all the ones that didn’t I didn’t dare try selling it to the one that would have.

Re: Why eval startups fail (2025)

#26
I built a simple (free) eval tool for my own uses (Github Gists + Model Outputs) after not being able to find a suitable one in the market.

The market's being split into

1. Longitudinal LLM observability tooling

Most eval startups have gone down the route of something more like being an observability platform for LLM inference. They want to be in your stack and running the inference to collect data on performance of it.

They collect things like how often a model returns JSON that's out of spec or returns values that aren't expected as well as general timing and cost info.

2. Safety Limiting / Pentesting

Say you're doing something in the medical field or that's sensitive in some way and you want to figure out what model has the best outputs for your task that won't fly off the guardrails.

3. Simple cost + performance + quality swapping

This is what my tool does, basically lets you test if you _really_ need to be running that frontier model in a loop across a million records or if you'd be better with an older model or something else.

https://evvl.ai/

Example eval: https://giyd8stidy.evvl.io

Re: Why eval startups fail (2025)

#29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's an important question! If you are paying a lot of money to use AI models, you care that you are using the best for your task. And it turns out that figuring out which AI models is best for your task is not trivial and requires some expertise.

That was too nice of a reply, I apologize. I just can't understand the thought process and that what exactly are we optimizing for? If you are paying a lot of money to use AI models, you already have so much overhead that precise ranking in an eval is not gonna make much difference between equally "frontier" models. Especially since models are sensitive to the input. So the eval is just gonna evaluate the eval with v…

It's not just figuring out if a model is good at things, but is it good at the things I care about.

Using a targeted eval suite (like a test suite) tells us that.

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