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The war on terror primed America for autocracy

economist.com

191–200 of 301 posts

Re: The war on terror primed America for autocracy

#191
post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, they ran a leading editorial titled "Why war would be justified", arguing that confronting Saddam Hussein was "the least bad of the limited range of available options". However, they reversed position in 2007, calling the invasion a debacle.

It would've been more surprising if they hadn't reversed their position, well after it became painfully clear to everyone that the war had been a terrible idea.

The idea of overthrowing a vicious dictator can't really be wrong in any moral sense.

In terms of realpolitik or execution it can be.

Re: The war on terror primed America for autocracy

#192
post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh come on. You’re trying to be edgy without any understanding of reality. It’s like saying History will record Gavrilo Princip as having won WW1. Huh? America’s current troubles are political polarization and ballooning deficits. Both of which are happening in every developed country, having nothing to do with 9/11. The foreign interventionism is a 100 year tradition in the US, nothing new under the sun. The only th…

> America’s current troubles are political polarization and ballooning deficits. American problem is one sided right wing radicalization, not polarization. If left of center moved the the right even more, the issues would remain.

I will call this Exhibit A in proving my point about polarization, thank you left-leaning person lacking in self-awareness.

Now we just need a right-leaning person who lacks self awareness to offer a rebuttal to you and we can complete the picture.

Re: The war on terror primed America for autocracy

#193
post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those corporations are certainly to be feared, but they don't have the power to impose violence or prison on you. The state does. It was the state that forced Snowden into exile. It is the state that is detaining people for the crime of walking out of Home Depot while speaking with an accent. Both must be kept in check.

Google has the power to fire me from my job by deleting my Google account.

Even if they did delete it, why not just make another one?

Google Accounts aren't linked at birth, and many people don't even have one.

Re: The war on terror primed America for autocracy

#194

A bunch of anti-ICE protesters in Texas were recently sentenced to 50-100 year prison sentences. It is one of the more egregious things I've read. The long and short of it is: A bunch of people organized (over group chat) a protest in Texas, where their plan was to conduct noise protest with fireworks. Some of the people knew each others, some did not. When they met up, some of the protesters broke off from the group…

Here's a flagged discussion of that: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48653311

Re: The war on terror primed America for autocracy

#196
post #172
post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Crying eagle photos in chain-emails Can someone elaborate? Whwre is this reference comming from? A simple web search did not yield much

Eh, I think they meant the general colour of "not quite social media" that was present at the time: chain emails and blogs. But the patriotic fervor was nuts . While there were substantial anti-war protests, that was very much not the majority opinion, and people were "cancelled" over opposing the war. It was inevitable. I remember, in the UK mid-afternoon after we'd found out about the first plane hitting the first…

Even though I'm American, I was living and working in Montreal at the time of 9/11 and it was weird how even there in the weeks after there were American flags displayed "in solidarity" with the US.

Re: The war on terror primed America for autocracy

#197
post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you think distinguishes the post-9/11 craziness from the Cold War/Red Scare craziness? My reason for asking is because I believe that "that's unconstitutional!" has been a failed protest message for more like 100 years than 25 years (and there's threads of state violence at the local and state levels that go back far longer). And IMO that is even stronger evidence that words on an ~240-year-old-doc—and the wa…

I am still amazed by the typical internet American's (Yours also I presume) love for voting, despite having long degraded into a two-party charade. Your sentiment starts out fierce: "constantly, actively..." and is immediately cut short "... choose to (only?) vote it that way." You point out that voicing one's interpretations of the 2nd amendment is powerless - but voting, reduced to such a miniscule gesture, is also…

All democracy is a "two party charade" then. Countries that have a dozen parties still have them form a left-wing and right-wing coalition in order to actually get enough seats to form a majority. I'd call those coalitions the real parties.

Re: The war on terror primed America for autocracy

#198
post #146
post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We are more or less retracing the path of Rome as the Republic expanded militarily until it was no longer practical to run it as a republic and it transitioned to empire. The current military "excursion" seems to be transitioning the US out of being an empire.

The poster above seems to promote the secession of Texas and other states - what is the next step of the russian propaganda playbook to ruin USA

Would secession ruin the USA? Hard to know. Secession from the EU has certainly been bad for the UK, but the rest of the EU seems to be doing ok.

Re: The war on terror primed America for autocracy

#199
post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Military Industrial Complex is the autocracy - the revolving door between the Joint Chiefs of Staff and the CFR - which are the entities really running the country (for the purposes of massively profitable military mis-adventures). https://www.transparency.org/en/corruptionary/revolving-door From a certain angle, it actually looks less like an autocracy and more like a military junta which has captured both 'side…

That's nonsense, clearly, because we've just elected two - no, make that four Presidents in a row who used the Military Industrial Complex in radically divergent ways to different ends. If we test the theory that American Presidents are beholden to the military industrial complex and not vice versa, compared to actually authoritarian countries in which the military basically is the government, we can see all sorts of…

"The world needs American war crimes", said nobody ever. Your Presidents changed flavor according to the whims of the superficial pretend-democracy culture, such that it is - the very real victims of their crimes however, didn't.

>An objective observer who wasn't being paid or hadn't bought into authoritarian propaganda would at least compare and contrast our legal system with the true, terrible, and numerous actual dictatorships all around the world.

A superficial argument to make given the million dead Iraqi's, the countless ruined states in the middle east, the funding of terror around the world by the American people and the ongoing genocide which wouldn't be happening if America's military might was truly bound to morality.

>United States is not currently comparable to a military dictatorship

Perhaps this is true from the perspective that the military dictatorship isn't directly oppressing its citizenry as you would expect from a 'traditional military dictatorship' (except of course, in reality it really is oppressing American citizens' lives), but if you are a non-American, the evil effect of the US' oppressive military organ is very, very evident...

Re: The war on terror primed America for autocracy

#200
post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’d like to pick on a couple points here that I think are not just nits: > more concessions to the working class. The 1950s were incredibly prosperous as a result This is absolutely not a common read of the boom in the 1950s. The common read of the boom in the 1950s is that America leveraged its success in WW2 into a global imperial economy, exporting its goods everywhere in the world. The combination of massive manu…

> The common read of the boom in the 1950s is that America leveraged its success in WW2 into a global imperial economy, exporting its goods everywhere in the world. I absolutely agree that the US massively benefited from WW2. For one, no war was fought on the American mainland (as opposed to, say, Europe and Japan, which were levelled). We benefitted from being the arms dealer. The post-1945 world order was reconstru…

I’m sure from our takes on some of these we have pretty different ideological bents; hello my friend with different views! :) To get down my take over virtual beers with you,

The CBPP leads that page you linked with “The years from the end of World War II into the 1970s were ones of substantial economic growth and broadly shared prosperity. Incomes grew rapidly and at roughly the same rate up and down the income ladder, roughly doubling in inflation-adjusted terms between the late 1940s and early 1970s.” So (household) wealth grew in the postwar boom in real dollar terms. But I think you meant to say that, and you made a small typo: wealth grew, inequality shrank?

The CEPR link also has what I think is the most important politically (and material to people) chart, which is the real wealth growth numbers. Real wealth of the bottom 90% grew until the early 70s, dipped until the early 80s, hitting its low point in the era I was picking on, and then turned and grew, with catchup growth compared to the 1% through the 90s (my proposed golden era), only reversing course in 2001 or so, post dotcom boom and staying low, never recovering through the two crashes.

I am not someone who believes raw inequality is a number to be super worried about — I’d much rather everyone was better off, even if some become much better off; inequality arguments that don’t think about the poorest constituency having more wealth leave me cold, so I see that era of 1980-2001 as good for the 90%.

Since 2008, the 90% in the US have had hard times, reduced wealth, no recovery, and seen the top 0.1% yield all of the benefits of compounding capital. I propose this lines up very well with the political shifts we see in the US voting populace and the demands for populism, and is more dispositive than the removal of capital controls in the mid 70s.

Manufacturing: I’d like more manufacturing on shore; it adds resilience to the economy. But hollowed out is not accurate. US Manufacturing has the highest dollar value added to the GDP ever this year, nearly $3 trillion. Inflation adjusted, I’d guess growing over the 1970s to now period. Percent of economy? That’s down. But it is not down because the economy has shrunk. It’s down because new areas of the economy have grown.

Real estate as a percent of GDP is relatively stable over the last decades, although the number is a little harder to source exactly, but it looks to be 12-13% of the economy now and historically. That said, wage-adjusted homes are vastly more expensive now than they have been possibly ever, another contributor to today’s political dynamics. The reasons for that are a combination of political decisions, monetary policy, capital markets and zoning laws in the places Americans mostly want to live (cities).

Anyway, fun discussing some history with you. I’ll propose in return my favorite terrible Clinton-era policy - making it impossible to clear student loans with bankruptcy - driving university costs out of control for Americans in the process. Sanders pushing for the US to pay these costs for all Americans is so, so dumb - adding guaranteed money to a system that already has become excellent at gouging. Better would be to allow bankruptcy, resetting the relationship between students and their hefty tuition bills.

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