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Signs you're a dangerous terrorist: using Signal, moving zines

werd.io

21–30 of 95 posts

Re: Signs you're a dangerous terrorist: using Signal, moving zines

#21
post #7

The sentences are pretty crazy but what’s with the strange understatement. > One fired an AR-15 at the police, which goes beyond legitimate protest into inciting violence (and maybe even deliberate provocation) The accurate statement is that he shot and wounded a police officer who he intentionally targeted according to his own testimony (where he claims he did so because he thought the cop was going to shoot his guy…

> One fired an AR-15 at the police, which goes beyond legitimate protest into inciting violence (and maybe even deliberate provocation)

Sounds like attempted murder for a start rather than incitement or provocation. Or worse, given there was a crowd.

Re: Signs you're a dangerous terrorist: using Signal, moving zines

#22
post #3

Anyone who values democracy is automatically an anti-fascist. Democracy is _inherently_ anti-fascist.

These are the values of the original antifa that killed and died for democracy by the way: https://web.archive.org/web/20211222183606/https://www.washi...

Re: Signs you're a dangerous terrorist: using Signal, moving zines

#23
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>if you joined a protest group where the organizer shoots a policeman and you’ve all got weapons at home and then you tell people to move the material you have at home that indicates you’re part of the group then I think the convictions are pretty accurate. Oh, tell that to the president of the United States and half of Congress and half of the Senate (and half of the country). Remind me what was their reaction and a…

The Jan 6 rioters were convicted and given similarly long sentences. Certainly Trump doing something doesn’t make it valid.

Well, if he did it and there was no opposition, it certainly makes it "valid". Where exactly has it been made invalid? Has anyone done anything to make it invalid? Aren't they free, and can they do it again?

And the slush fund for the Jan 6 rioters is just suspended, not canceled. It will come back.

Re: Signs you're a dangerous terrorist: using Signal, moving zines

#24
post #3

Anyone who values democracy is automatically an anti-fascist. Democracy is _inherently_ anti-fascist.

Democracy also has a 'tyranny of the majority' vulnerability in which it can enforce policies onto minorities that could be just as harsh compared to policies imposed by autocracies. For example - Japanese American internment in WWII.

Re: Signs you're a dangerous terrorist: using Signal, moving zines

#25
> Let’s be clear: a few of the protesters were out of bounds. One fired an AR-15 at the police, which goes beyond legitimate protest into inciting violence (and maybe even deliberate provocation). I would never condone that kind of activity.

This is the crux of the issue - from the perspective of the government, this was a group of people who lead an armed terrorist attack on a government facility in order to disrupt the functioning of that facility because they held an ideological belief that the facility was immoral; and it's irrelevant that not every member of the group personally shot a cop with an AR-15, just as it wasn't relevant that Osama bin Laden didn't personally hijack any planes and crash them into buildings when the US government sent special forces to break into his compound and kill him.

> Instead, other “evidence” was used to infer that they planned violence, including this specific argument that should give everyone pause:

> “[…] including their decision to communicate and auto-delete messages on Signal, an encrypted messaging platform widely used among activists, journalists and other citizens wary of government surveillance.”

Given that the other evidence that they planned violence was that they set off fireworks outside the facility, vandalized it, and then shot a cop in the neck when the cop came to investigate the vandalism, I don't really care that the government prosecutors also considered their use of Signal as evidence that they planned violence. Frankly, if you're part of a group that is planning violence, it is a good idea to use an encrypted messaging platform like Signal that has an auto-delete feature to do that planning, the prosecutors are correct to note this.

Re: Signs you're a dangerous terrorist: using Signal, moving zines

#26

> Let’s be clear: a few of the protesters were out of bounds. One fired an AR-15 at the police, which goes beyond legitimate protest into inciting violence (and maybe even deliberate provocation). I would never condone that kind of activity. This is the crux of the issue - from the perspective of the government, this was a group of people who lead an armed terrorist attack on a government facility in order to disrupt…

I found the wording of "inciting violence" odd - surely firing a rifle at police officers is violence and not simply incitement for others to join in? It sounds like the author of the article is so obsessed with the social ramifications of acts they can't see the literal ones.

Re: Signs you're a dangerous terrorist: using Signal, moving zines

#27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Jan 6 rioters were convicted and given similarly long sentences. Certainly Trump doing something doesn’t make it valid.

They were given similarly long sentences, despite shooting zero people.

Honestly, I think both Jan 6 and these rioters deserve punishment, but not such long sentences. Prevention and deterrence - prevention by monitoring (at least to prevent them from going near “enemy territory”) and taking their guns, deterrence by at most a few years in prison, other penalties (like fines), and the social consequences. Anything more is unnecessarily harmful and wastes prison resources.

Re: Signs you're a dangerous terrorist: using Signal, moving zines

#28
post #4

In Poland during the Soviet occupation (1945-1989) people were beaten and jailed for having a copier that would be used for copying magazines and brochures

I'd argue it was a vassal state, not occupied (per se) at least from the 1950's onwards. Yes, the soviet troops did station in Poland, but the beatings were administered by other Polish citizens.

It still is, it just changed owners.

Re: Signs you're a dangerous terrorist: using Signal, moving zines

#30

> Let’s be clear: a few of the protesters were out of bounds. One fired an AR-15 at the police, which goes beyond legitimate protest into inciting violence (and maybe even deliberate provocation). I would never condone that kind of activity. This is the crux of the issue - from the perspective of the government, this was a group of people who lead an armed terrorist attack on a government facility in order to disrupt…

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