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Julian Assange: Cryptographic Call to Arms

cryptome.org

221–230 of 281 posts

Re: Julian Assange: Cryptographic Call to Arms

#221
post #144

In maybe five to ten years, the internet will effectively split in two. There will be major, commercial service providers such as Facebook-type social media hubs, major news sites but there will also be an invisible internet that is everything internet used to be, and in addition to that encrypted, anonymous, and untraceable. How it shows most prominently at the moment is file sharing. Setting the endless copyright d…

" ... invisible darknets ..."

Not invisible to governments and corporations, just to your fellow citizen.

The corporate-state "owns" the infrastructure. Get your TCP/pigeons (or whatever network you can throw together) working and we can meaningfully discuss "invisible darknets".

Re: Julian Assange: Cryptographic Call to Arms

#222
post #144

In maybe five to ten years, the internet will effectively split in two. There will be major, commercial service providers such as Facebook-type social media hubs, major news sites but there will also be an invisible internet that is everything internet used to be, and in addition to that encrypted, anonymous, and untraceable. How it shows most prominently at the moment is file sharing. Setting the endless copyright d…

" ... invisible darknets ..." Not invisible to governments and corporations, just to your fellow citizen. The corporate-state "owns" the infrastructure. Get your TCP/pigeons (or whatever network you can throw together) working and we can meaningfully discuss "invisible darknets".

Meh. Assuming you have some good way to avoid the Warden problem (like, say, sneakernet) you could probably get build some sort of stegosystem for this. It would be very high latency, but then again, so was the original Internet.

Re: Julian Assange: Cryptographic Call to Arms

#223
post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Will ISPs be forced to disallow all encrypted traffic? That would be disastrous. It's already possible to connect to a website over https (with a self-signed cert you've obtained through a second channel) and be pretty much certain no one is snooping. The target you're connecting to doesn't have to be obvious either.

ISPs can be forced to disallow all encrypted traffic, but ISPs can't be forced to disallow all steganographic traffic, e.g. sending pictures of cats via Facebook.

ISPs cannot truly be forced to disallow encrypted traffic, because encryption is necessary for secure online commerce, DRM systems, the security of corporate secrets, etc., etc., etc. However, it is possible that a government might try to impose licensing for encryption, similar to how licensing for radio works -- perhaps a licensing system that requires one end of an encrypted connection to have a special registration that only businesses can afford / obtain (likewise with WDE). Thus the "little people" will be unable to legally use encryption to protect their privacy, and hackers will be charged with yet another "crime."

Most governments care about business these days. Do you think any government would say "no crypto" when Coca Cola says they need to protect the secrecy of their formula, or when HBO says they need to prevent people from copying movies?

Re: Julian Assange: Cryptographic Call to Arms

#224
I am completely confused here.

Perhaps it is his ridiculous tone of a hyperbolic Call To Arms, but can someone help me weed through this nonsense?

So he's saying we need to create and use for ourselves more powerful encryption schemes to protect us from powers that be? Wikileaks is all about breaking information out from behind those walls that the powers themselves puts up to protect themselves.

So create systems to protect ourselves from people like ourselves? It's nonsense. I thought Assange's old call to arms was much more on point with the inevitable future: transparency.

Has he changed his mind? Does he now agree with his old enemies?

I always thought the old adage of 'Failing to Beat 'em so Let's Join 'em' was a sign of weakness?

Re: Julian Assange: Cryptographic Call to Arms

#225

First, recall that states are systems through which coercive force flows. Factions within a state may compete for support, leading to democratic surface phenomena, but the underpinnings of states are the systematic application, and avoidance, of violence. Land ownership, property, rents, dividends, taxation, court fines, censorship, copyrights and trademarks are all enforced by the threatened application of state vio…

[deleted]

Re: Julian Assange: Cryptographic Call to Arms

#226
post #158
post #144

In maybe five to ten years, the internet will effectively split in two. There will be major, commercial service providers such as Facebook-type social media hubs, major news sites but there will also be an invisible internet that is everything internet used to be, and in addition to that encrypted, anonymous, and untraceable. How it shows most prominently at the moment is file sharing. Setting the endless copyright d…

Just as a thought experiment, what do you think of an alternative reality in which even more of reality is transparent - including the operations of commercial, political, and other entities? Preferably collated and maintained by the community rather than centralized entities, crucially; somewhat akin to a shared wikipedia. The thing that worries me about this push towards encryption and anonymity is that it does aff…

"The thing that worries me about this push towards encryption and anonymity is that it does afford nefarious elements a lot of safe harbor"

I have yet to see any evidence that this is true; all I see are anecdotes from law enforcement agencies who are pushing for less crypto, and even those anecdotes only tenuously describe "nefarious" elements. You cannot encrypt a blood stain or a fingerprint, nor can you use an anonymity system to hide the fact that a known terrorist group is increasing the volume of data it sends and receives.

So what nefarious elements do you think are going to avoid prosecution by using crypto? A few years ago, there was a case of a group of child molesters using PGP and anonymous remailers (and possibly other privacy technologies) to communicate and exchange photos of themselves abusing children over Usenet. They were caught, arrested, and prosecuted following a well-coordinated investigation -- otherwise known as "good police work." Only a handful managed to avoid identification or prosecution, and it is worth noting that this was the case with investigations of criminal organizations long before good encryption was widely available. It should hardly be surprising that such a group was ultimately caught: they were sending each other photographic evidence of their own crimes.

It is also worth pointing out that anonymity systems are used by the police to catch criminals. In the case described above, the police used the very anonymity system that the child abusers were using, and were thus able to observe their messages while maintaining the secrecy of their investigation. Similar scenarios have played out with Tor. Criminals who use the Internet will eventually figure out which IP addresses belong to the police; it will be critical for the police to use anonymity systems to mask their IP addresses (this, in fact, is closely related to the reason the Navy created Tor in the first place). It is not so much that society's nefarious elements are more empowered now; it is more that the nature of the game has changed, that new tactics and strategies will be developed by both criminals and the police to utilize and cope with these systems.

I would argue that crypto and anonymity systems have benefited society more than they have harmed it. The same crypto and anonymity technologies used by the group I mentioned above have been used by political dissidents and activists to protect themselves from abusive governments; human rights activists have used such systems to protect the people they work with. Whistleblowers have used such systems in the past, and will have to do so in the future. For people who do not have an army at their command, these sorts of systems are necessary for their protection. If you were going to report Mafia activity to the police, would you rather use Tor/remailers/etc. or would you walk into the police station in person?

There is no such thing as a world of transparency and openness, because crime is part of human nature and because political ambition is part of human nature, and both of these behaviors exploit openness and transparency. I am all for an open government, but even I acknowledge that the government will need to keep some things secret -- military plans, investigations of dangerous criminal enterprises, the locations of witnesses to crimes, and many other things must be kept secret for society's benefit. Open and transparent government does not mean "secret free," it means "secrecy when it is absolutely necessary;" it is the responsibility of citizens to ensure that their representatives in the government are not declaring too many things to be secret, and it is the job of journalists to report to the citizens what is being kept secret from them. The sooner society realizes that, the better.

Re: Julian Assange: Cryptographic Call to Arms

#227
post #18

I agree with the sentiment, but Assange's prose is a little dense. Maybe it's OK for his target audience, as I assume the layman won't be reading cryptome.org. What we really need is a champion to explain in relatable, plain English why encryption is essential even for mom and dad, and to explain it in a more mainstream venue. I think a big reason why people don't encrypt mail, etc., is because: 1) they don't know wh…

"The problem isn't that people don't care"

I think you are overly optimistic here. Let's put it this way: if people were told that they had to report one crime committed by their neighbors in order to watch the superbowl, what do you think would happen?

"They would care if they knew the realities of how their communications are stored, processed, and exposed to their governments"

I have a lot of friends who know this, some of whom know it in more depth than many HN readers. Guess what? They all stopped bothering to maintain a PGP key. They all carry cell phones, and they do not even take the time to try to disable location services. They are all users of at least one of (Facebook Twitter Google+ GMail LinkedIn). If the people who know these things do not care, what make you think that people do not know these things would care if they became knowledgeable?

Re: Julian Assange: Cryptographic Call to Arms

#228
post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> there will be a major "bazaar" going on underground I thought most people here had heard of The Silk Road onion service: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silk_Road_%28marketplace%29 > An online bank could very well operate in the anonymous network because the traffic is already cryptographically signed, and users can enjoy strong authentication if they wish to or remain a pair of anonymous public/private keys. Or you…

Or you can use bitcoins to accomplish the same and you don't even need banks. The longer this fiction persists, the less chance a fundamentally decentralized crypto currency will take hold. Trusted 3rd parties will always be necessary, and that's not a de facto bad thing.

Why is this a "fiction" and why do you need banks? Why do you dismiss Bitcoin? Please explain.

Re: Julian Assange: Cryptographic Call to Arms

#229
post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Forget about the Constitution. Rather, they should respect basic human rights and the principles of the Enlightenment. All this focus Americans put on their Constitution makes it easier for their government to become oppressive, because it encourages complacency. As though you could write the perfect set of laws, that you could define the perfect set of operating principles for your government, and in that way free y…

Forget about the Constitution. Rather, they should respect basic human rights and the principles of the Enlightenment. All this focus Americans put on their Constitution… It's part of the American mythos/story/narrative, that the USA constitution/bill of rights/founding fathers were some sort of genius people who were the first to come up with this brilliant and perfect text.

That's not it at all. "Basic human rights and the principles of the Enlightenment" have no position in American law while The Constitution is the foundation of all American law and of the actions of American law enforcement people.

Re: Julian Assange: Cryptographic Call to Arms

#230
post #177
post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just as a thought experiment, what do you think of an alternative reality in which even more of reality is transparent - including the operations of commercial, political, and other entities? Preferably collated and maintained by the community rather than centralized entities, crucially; somewhat akin to a shared wikipedia. The thing that worries me about this push towards encryption and anonymity is that it does aff…

I would prefer a reality/society where everything is public and transparent, however, we cannot do that yet. We would need much more evenly distributed social power and means of production. Maybe robots can enable that in a few decades? See http://marshallbrain.com/manna1.htm

At the turn of the 20th century, this optimism was widespread: science and industrialization would, according to popular thought, bring about a golden age where disease, famine, and war would all be forgotten. Some people, like H. G. Wells, had different ideas; rather than bringing about an age of peace, new technology would be used as a tool of war. H. G. Wells thought that radioactivity (which was cutting edge at the time) would be used to make bombs so powerful that whole cities could be destroyed and that airplanes would be key to military tactics (he was a bit off the mark on some things: he thought submarines would not work, that airplanes would not be invented until the 1950s, and that nuclear bombs would explode continuously for an entire day -- nobody said he had a crystal ball).

Robots distributing social power? I think it will be the exact opposite. Robots will be used to maintain social power, to prevent people from every gaining it. Your robot will be like an iPhone: you will be locked out of the software, forbidden to make modifications, forbidden to hack. Your robot will produce only as much as you need to survive; you will not receive enough to gain any more power than you already had. Your robot will also spy on you, so that if you start organizing a group of people to rebel against those with power, you will be thwarted by some means (perhaps your food will be drugged to reduce your cognitive abilities, or maybe for simplicity you will just stop receiving food). The people with power will never have to worry about being unseated, because they will have total control over the means of production. The only threat to the powerful at the point will be their own incompetence; only when they are not able to make the right decisions about managing society will society have a chance to rebel.

Here is a microcosm of what a world where robots run everything would be like:

http://www.wired.com/cars/coolwheels/news/2006/08/71554

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