The war on terror primed America for autocracy • Hacker News Board

Re: The war on terror primed America for autocracy

#91

Post by jmyeet » Wed, Jun 24, 2026, 5:12 AM UTC

fallous wrote: post #80

jmyeet wrote: post #46

That's just not looking back far enough. The war on terror was a continuation. I'd say we're seeing the results of not stringing up all the slave owners after the Civil War. American industrialists going back to the robber baron era and beyond have always loved autocracy, specifically fascism. This was heightened by the fear of communism. When FDR was elected, there was an attempted coup (ie the business plot [1]). H…

Your argument/timeline seems a bit confused in a couple of places. Our problem was "not stringing up all the slave owners after the Civil War," yet you then point out American industrialists (going back to the robber baron era) loved fascism. But the industrial parts of the US were the Northern states, not the South. Additionally you complain that the Democrats are no effective opposition but don't appear to consider…

Saying the Democrats were the Southern secessionists ignores the revolt against civil rights in the 1950s and 1960s and the Southern Strategy [1]. All the Dixiecrats simply became Republicans.

Also, the slave owners who got strung up should probably have included Andrew Johnson. Without Lincoln's unfortunately untimely demise or without Johnson we may well have avoided Confederate leaders regaining power and the whole Redeemer era of winding back rghts for the former enslaved.

[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_strategy

Re: The war on terror primed America for autocracy

#92

Post by dnautics » Wed, Jun 24, 2026, 5:13 AM UTC

nullhole wrote: post #15

marssaxman wrote: post #5

This seemed obvious to me at the time. It was hard to understand why people in the cultural mainstream let themselves get swept up in it. I felt like I lost my country, back then, as they pretty much all went off into crazyland together.

The OK-ing of torture was a clear step into the totalitarian camp and a clear breach with justice, liberalism, and decency.

I'm gonna be that guy and say that the concern about torture is orthogonal to authoritarianism. There were very much "less authoritarian/less centralized" eras in the US when it was general course of action was to do torturous things far worse than many of the things that got labelled 'torture' in the post 1990s era.

Re: The war on terror primed America for autocracy

#93

Post by pstuart » Wed, Jun 24, 2026, 5:14 AM UTC

UncleOxidant wrote: post #58

1970-01-01 wrote: post #21

I just don't buy this narrative. What primed the USA for decline was it's new allergy to manufacturing, addiction to social media, and Trump taking his spot as POTUS twice. If anything, these wars were something for everyone to worry about, which involved actual critical thinking. They were nowhere near the root cause.

Social media addiction didn't come around until about 2008 - and even then it took a few years to become widespread. Trump being elected twice isn't the cause of the decline, it's a symptom of it. The GWOT is one cause among many, but probably the one that pushed things over the edge. It led to both Iraq and Afghanistan wars which cost $Trillions that we borrowed and still haven't paid off. Not to mention the lost li…

I think the War on Drugs was the gateway drug to this insanity. It helped to create a more militarized police, and to condition us to surrender our rights because "think of the children!".

Re: The war on terror primed America for autocracy

#94

Post by jazzpush2 » Wed, Jun 24, 2026, 5:15 AM UTC

inigyou wrote: post #65

jazzpush2 wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's actually incredible that you can share that bottom paragraph with a straight face after we just went to war with Iran. Let's discuss it openly, as you prime: how do you contrast what you just shared with the war, and Israel's actions after the agreed to ceasefire and declaration of war's end?

In the last few DAYS the republican party has started putting on an anti-israel face to set up for the midterms, with JD Vance in particular giving a speech about how we need to separate from Israel. The democrat party, in its typical useless fashion, has not. So it looks at this point like the midterms will be another republican landslide.

I'm not sure if you meant to respond to me, but nothing you've said has addressed what I asked, which was very direct.

Re: The war on terror primed America for autocracy

#95

Post by inigyou » Wed, Jun 24, 2026, 5:19 AM UTC

roarcher wrote: post #73

inigyou wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google has the power to fire me from my job by deleting my Google account.

I don't know why that would be the case, but let's say it is. An overzealous cop and prosecutor can, with a little luck, use the power of the state to get you executed or imprisoned for life for a crime you didn't commit. If you had to choose one of those, which one would you prefer?

The cop and prosecutor. At least three people would have to be stupid to take my life, versus zero people at Google

Re: The war on terror primed America for autocracy

#96

Post by what » Wed, Jun 24, 2026, 5:19 AM UTC

Morromist wrote: post #78

SpicyLemonZest wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How old are you? I think a lot of younger folks don't fully adjust for important factors: plane hijackings used to be much more common, 9/11 was committed by the second group of Islamic terrorists who tried to blow up the World Trade Center, and 9/11 was the third major terrorist attack by Al-Qaeda in a 4 year span. It's easy now to say that it was a crazy worst-case scenario, but that was not at all obvious then; fo…

It was a crazy time, not in the danger from hijackings but the enormous amount of fear and cowardice America built up within itself. It was crazy because of the mass hysteria not the violence. Take this example: 1.2 million Americans died from Covid. 3000 americans died in the twin towers attack. That's 0.25% of the number that died from covid. However we gave up considerably more liberty to defend against the hijack…

1.2M Americans died with Covid, maybe.

Re: The war on terror primed America for autocracy

#97

Post by inigyou » Wed, Jun 24, 2026, 5:20 AM UTC

jazzpush2 wrote: post #94

inigyou wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the last few DAYS the republican party has started putting on an anti-israel face to set up for the midterms, with JD Vance in particular giving a speech about how we need to separate from Israel. The democrat party, in its typical useless fashion, has not. So it looks at this point like the midterms will be another republican landslide.

I'm not sure if you meant to respond to me, but nothing you've said has addressed what I asked, which was very direct.

It explains why republican voters now think they're anti-israel

Re: The war on terror primed America for autocracy

#98

Post by asdff » Wed, Jun 24, 2026, 5:21 AM UTC

kitku wrote: post #82

majormajor wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you think distinguishes the post-9/11 craziness from the Cold War/Red Scare craziness? My reason for asking is because I believe that "that's unconstitutional!" has been a failed protest message for more like 100 years than 25 years (and there's threads of state violence at the local and state levels that go back far longer). And IMO that is even stronger evidence that words on an ~240-year-old-doc—and the wa…

I am still amazed by the typical internet American's (Yours also I presume) love for voting, despite having long degraded into a two-party charade. Your sentiment starts out fierce: "constantly, actively..." and is immediately cut short "... choose to (only?) vote it that way." You point out that voicing one's interpretations of the 2nd amendment is powerless - but voting, reduced to such a miniscule gesture, is also…

This is why it is important to vote in primary elections as well.

Re: The war on terror primed America for autocracy

#99

Post by rayiner » Wed, Jun 24, 2026, 5:22 AM UTC

gmadsen wrote: post #69

rayiner wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It wasn’t just the GOTW. It was much of the 20th century from World War I onward. Each step led to further centralization of government, a larger and larger security apparatus, and more and more foreign entanglements. We are more or less retracing the path of Rome as the Republic expanded militarily until it was no longer practical to run it as a republic and it transitioned to empire.

A Pax Romana would be a considerable upgrade

No it wouldn’t. The empire sapped Rome and destroyed its democracy.

Re: The war on terror primed America for autocracy

#100

Post by rayiner » Wed, Jun 24, 2026, 5:24 AM UTC

applicative wrote: post #31

rayiner wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Calling it the “partition of India” makes it seem like it was imposed on India rather than being a product of the 1940 Lahore Resolution where Jinnah led calls for a separate Pakistan. And in retrospect, it was a huge boon to India and Bangladesh to separate themselves from Pakistan.

Two million dead Hindu; ten million forcible refugees; thousands of ancient villages burned to the ground — it ‘was a huge boon to India’

In 2026, it’s a huge boon to India to not have Pakistan within its body politic. It’s like having broken up with a finance who ended up becoming a self destructive addict. Same for Bangladesh, even with all the people who died in the independence war.