There are people walking around today who voted Bush twice and regretted it and now voted Trump three times and regretted it.
I wonder what war they'll regret next?
The war on terror primed America for autocracy
51–60 of 301 posts
Re: The war on terror primed America for autocracy
#52Yes. History will record that bin Laden won. There's a pre-9/11 book about bin Laden, "The Man Who Declared War on America". Bin Laden was interviewed. Consider the situation at the end of the Clinton administration. The US was at peace. The Soviet Union was gone. The US got along with China and Russia. No major enemies remained. The federal budget was balanced. Bin Laden looked at that, and realized that America had…
> bin Laden won are his people better off or are they worse off?
Most of the funding for the campaign came via Saudi Arabian citizens [0], and they have absolutely benefited from the change in political power in the Middle East.
[0] https://web.archive.org/web/20060311045338/http://news.bbc.c...
Re: The war on terror primed America for autocracy
#53Earlier quoted context omitted.
> We are more or less retracing the path of Rome as the Republic expanded militarily until it was no longer practical to run it as a republic and it transitioned to empire. The current military "excursion" seems to be transitioning the US out of being an empire.
Either way, I'd just caution that the empire-ness of a country's military or diplomatic reach doesn't necessarily tell us what to expect in terms of its internal hellhole-ness of authoritarianism.
The two things are related because maintenance of the empire imposes demands on the domestic political and economic structure. Look at the domestic politics during Vietnam and the GWOT.
Re: The war on terror primed America for autocracy
#54Earlier quoted context omitted.
>Exactly what everyone said when Patriot Act was passed I've been seeing plenty of Americans cheering on temporary safety over essential liberty since then, and I can't even provide examples without getting [flagged].
> I can't even provide examples [of Americans cheering on temporary safety over essential liberty] I've seen other people critiquing it over the years, perhaps it has something to do with other aspects of the delivery or message?
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Re: The war on terror primed America for autocracy
#55Earlier quoted context omitted.
Rome took some unexpected Ls against the barbarians too. Didn’t change the trajectory of the empire.
The failure to integrate the barbarian Goth refugees is generally marked as the beginning of the fall - and absolutely changed the trajectory of the empire.
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Re: The war on terror primed America for autocracy
#56Yes. History will record that bin Laden won. There's a pre-9/11 book about bin Laden, "The Man Who Declared War on America". Bin Laden was interviewed. Consider the situation at the end of the Clinton administration. The US was at peace. The Soviet Union was gone. The US got along with China and Russia. No major enemies remained. The federal budget was balanced. Bin Laden looked at that, and realized that America had…
> bin Laden won are his people better off or are they worse off?
Was his goal to provide for his people? I thought his goal was to bring down the Great Satan.
Re: The war on terror primed America for autocracy
#57There are people walking around today who voted Bush twice and regretted it and now voted Trump three times and regretted it. I wonder what war they'll regret next?
I have regretted everyone that I ever voted for. Every candidate will ultimately be regrettable, because it’s not the candidate that’s bad - it is the system itself that has become irredeemably corrupt.
Re: The war on terror primed America for autocracy
#58I just don't buy this narrative. What primed the USA for decline was it's new allergy to manufacturing, addiction to social media, and Trump taking his spot as POTUS twice. If anything, these wars were something for everyone to worry about, which involved actual critical thinking. They were nowhere near the root cause.
Social media addiction didn't come around until about 2008 - and even then it took a few years to become widespread. Trump being elected twice isn't the cause of the decline, it's a symptom of it. The GWOT is one cause among many, but probably the one that pushed things over the edge. It led to both Iraq and Afghanistan wars which cost $Trillions that we borrowed and still haven't paid off. Not to mention the lost lives on all sides and further destabilization of the ME. Our over-reaction to 9/11 was the terrorists' dream. It's hard to imagine an outcome that would've been better from their perspective if their aim was to weaken and destabilize the US.
Re: The war on terror primed America for autocracy
#59Earlier quoted context omitted.
Rome took some unexpected Ls against the barbarians too. Didn’t change the trajectory of the empire.
The failure to integrate the barbarian Goth refugees is generally marked as the beginning of the fall - and absolutely changed the trajectory of the empire.
“Failure to integrate” is one way to describe the Goths sacking Rome. But I agree the barbarians did them in at the end. My point was that the Iran fiasco is more like the Battle of the Teutoburg Forest, where Rome backed off after taking a beating. That didn’t mark a transition away from Empire, simply a retreat after a military loss.
Re: The war on terror primed America for autocracy
#60There are people walking around today who voted Bush twice and regretted it and now voted Trump three times and regretted it. I wonder what war they'll regret next?
I have regretted everyone that I ever voted for. Every candidate will ultimately be regrettable, because it’s not the candidate that’s bad - it is the system itself that has become irredeemably corrupt.
A friend went to an Obama rally in '08 when he came to town. Later he said, I'm sure I'll regret voting for him, but I'm also pretty sure I'll regret it less than most votes I've taken.