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Japanese symbols that speak without words

arun.is

131–140 of 143 posts

Re: Japanese symbols that speak without words

#131
post #89

Several years back I lived in Tokyo for a couple of years. I like learning the local language. I could mostly get by with the spoken Japanese (Nihongo). Tried to learn the script but failed miserably. It's a combination of Hirgana alphabets, Katakana alphabets and to top it all 10s of thousands of Chinese Kanji. Loved my stay, very polite people. I think their vocabulary doesn't have the word impolite (polite and les…

The article is not about the Japanese language, and it's not about writing systems, Kanji or otherwise.

Sorry, I guess I missed the point. Looks like I got carried away by my experience.

Re: Japanese symbols that speak without words

#132
> For those who are hearing impaired, there’s the chōkaku shōgaisha hyōshiki, which is a butterfly-shaped mark in yellow and green.

They used a pictogram to convey a kanji pun (chō refers to butterfly (蝶) as well as part of the word chõkaku (聴覚), sense of hearing).

How dumb; at least the butterfly wings sort of look like ears a little bit.

Re: Japanese symbols that speak without words

#133

This is a classic case of "Thing in japan". Yes 'wakaba' mark is cool. But the exact same point can be made about a big red L . Far more ubiquitous. Also there are beautiful medieval crests on British Fire engines. I doubt that purely wordless, symbolic system was truly the ultimate pinnacle of operational clarity.

Yeah, these are not good symbols, except the help mark. None of them have any meaning, they must simply be learned. I recognize some of them, from seeing them in Japan, but I thought they meant some kind of taxi. A symbolic ear would be better to designate deafness, a walking stick age.

You might think, but those symbols could also be stigmatizing. Or personally offensive.

Imagine being a 75-year-old who runs ultramarathons, having to have a walking stick on their car.

A hearing impaired person may not want to be symbolized by their less-than-well-working body part.

Re: Japanese symbols that speak without words

#134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, these are not good symbols, except the help mark. None of them have any meaning, they must simply be learned. I recognize some of them, from seeing them in Japan, but I thought they meant some kind of taxi. A symbolic ear would be better to designate deafness, a walking stick age.

You might think, but those symbols could also be stigmatizing. Or personally offensive. Imagine being a 75-year-old who runs ultramarathons, having to have a walking stick on their car. A hearing impaired person may not want to be symbolized by their less-than-well-working body part.

The symbols used in Europe are ears. (Not on cars but in general.)

I doubt the deaf people care, though I also don't doubt at all that some virtue signallers are highly offended on their behalf.

Re: Japanese symbols that speak without words

#135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People have seen the symbols since childhood, and as far as I know in every European country it's necessary to pass the exam on knowing what they mean before starting practical driving lessons.

Driving in Europe would be completely impossible without them. I have no idea what the Greek word for "no parking or stopping between 09 and 15" is, or the Croatian word for "left".

I agree - to me, that is the main practical reason Europe is a special case well-suited to symbolic signs.

The US doesn't have nearly that issue, since we have tons of symbolic signs, and few languages, which share a ton of close cognates anyway. For instance, most Mexicans I've heard will use the verb "parquear" or "aparcar" to mean "to park" rather than "estacionar" - so as you might expect, they have zero trouble decoding a sign saying "NO PARKING 9AM - 6PM" which is one of the most complicated text-only signs you usually see.

Re: Japanese symbols that speak without words

#136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The slower car should signal the moment they decide they need to merge into the lane, then wait for an appropriate gap.

The Massachusetts handbook [1] says: > Use your rearview mirror, check your blind spots, and use your directional signals when changing lanes. Remember these three steps: (1) look, (2) signal, (3) move To me this means you don't signal until it's actually safe to merge. E.g. if a car is passing me at high speed, I wouldn't turn on my signal until after they had passed. If I did it before they pass, they might think m…

> I wouldn't turn on my signal until after they had passed. If I did it before they pass, they might think my intent is to merge in front of them, and slam on their brakes

This is precisely the point I'm making, which I perceive as more typical in the northeastern US than other parts of the US where people use the turn signal to beg for an opportunity to be created that doesn't yet exist (at which point declining to create is seen as actively fighting when it's really not).

Re: Japanese symbols that speak without words

#137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Also really strange to me to be prioritizing fuel economy over safety. If I see that someone is actually changing lanes (in terms of lateral position changing within their lane) then of course I would get out of their way, as it would be unsafe not to. But if they're postponing their lane change (despite their signal already being on) because I'm about to be in their way, that's the scenario I'm talking about when…

I think if you're waiting for them to actually start to change langes before responding, then you're leaving too much up to chance. Because if you go to pass them they might start to merge when you no longer have any safe options available - either because they didn't see you, they misjudged, they're just an a-hole, etc. There are a lot of unpredictable drivers out there. I think the safest thing - and the most polit…

Indeed, the extremely minor inconvenience of creating a gap in that scenario is very common even in the northeast US. It's the other half of the spectrum, where it's a more severe inconvenience, that it's uncommon for a northeastern driver to accommodate, from which the perception arises that we fight people who are signaling. The signaler is the one picking the fight, and we simply don't entertain it.

Re: Japanese symbols that speak without words

#138
post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>If I am in the middle lane (lane 2), and I realize I need to get into the leftmost lane (lane 1) to make a turn, but lane 1 is too full for me to simply move into it without affecting others, then I would have no choice but to cut someone off. ...you could just miss your turn, instead of cutting someone off?

I'm not exactly well-versed in the term "cutting someone off", perhaps it implies dangerously moving in front of somebody, in which case, obviously it shouldn't be done. But often people are unwilling to slow down to open a gap to let somebody "cut them off", even when it's perfectly safe to do so (low speeds and low speed differences). By slowing down to let somebody in front of you, you prevent them from missing th…

I'll admit, many maneuvers can be described as cutting someone off. One so crazy that it would likely cause a collision should never be performed, but I was talking about the low-speed "bumper to bumper traffic" scenario common in lanes dedicated to making a left turn: the reason the gaps are too small for a non-cutoff lane change is a direct consequence of the low speeds involved, say 0-10mph. Imagine cars are nearly stopped for a red light, with gaps varying between 0.2 car length and 0.5 car length (this is much tighter than other parts of the US where gaps while stopped for a red light are typically 1-3 car lengths). I would line the nose of my car to the very front of the 0.5 gap (taking the majority of the risk), signal, cross the lane line within a flash or two, forcing the gap to expand to just over the length of my car, all at just a few mph. This is the type of cutting off I was referring to. And the driver who was cut off has no opportunity to fight; they would if I signaled too early!

Re: Japanese symbols that speak without words

#139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would love to read your article about the beautiful medieval crests on British fire engines, too! No joke, feel free to link something in reply to my comment as well if you have existing articles. I feel like there has been a lot of unnecessary pushback about 'Thing in Japan' articles on the internet. Guess what, there are cool things everywhere; including Japan. Write about the ones you know about!

IMO the author kind of opened themselves up to it when they said: > And still, in my life here in the United States, words are still needed to convey meaning. As if the US doesn’t have easily identifiable police and firefighters. Or handicap placards/license plates. Or public transportation logos (such as the NY MTA logo). I think Japan does a pretty good job with signage in general and some of it is interesting to r…

And the American symbols symbolize what they signify, too. A stylized wheelchair to indicate physical mobility. An ear with a line through it to indicate deafness. Less poetic, maybe, but the point is to communicate.

Re: Japanese symbols that speak without words

#140
post #2

The common theme for the discussed symbols is consideration for others. In New Zealand we require a yellow [L] sign on cars with learner drivers (with learners drivers licenses). However I get the impression that other drivers are less considerate around a car displaying the [L] sign. I suspect New Zealanders are generally far less considerate than Japanese. Politeness avoids a trillion sharp edges. We also seem to b…

Bullying a car displaying any of the symbols displayed in the article is a ticketable offense in Japan* *I've never seen or heard of someone getting a ticket for merely inconsiderate driving, but it's there in the traffic law

I'm not sure what bullying a car entails, but does that mean you're allowed to bully cars without those symbols?
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