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Dropbox is going brogue

blog.dropbox.com

61–70 of 91 posts

Re: Dropbox is going brogue

#61
post #59
post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the Taoiseach (prime minister) is pronounced something like "Teshar" (with a kind of 'gutural' r at the end) Try tee-shock and you will be pretty close to the standard.

Wow, Gaelic has to be one of the most unintuitive languages in the world to pronounce. I've read that word probably a hundred times in various news articles, and always pronounced it in my head as Tao-Seech, which I'm assuming is ridiculous to Irish ears. I'm a bit interested in Irish culture so I've informally learned some pronunciations here and there to see if I could start to get a handle on Gaelic words: the onl…

I'm Irish so I guess we just understand that you just forget what you know about how things are pronounced in English and go from there.

You could try http://www.forvo.com/languages/ga/

Re: Dropbox is going brogue

#62
post #56
post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

technically it's not illegal, but completely immoral. Imagine if I channelled all my PAYE taxes through an offshore company, who would pay for our health system, infrastructure etc.

So, any company expanding from the US to Ireland is "completely immoral", because it's Ireland?

no.

I'm not suggesting that is why Dropbox are moving to Ireland. I'm saying that if that was the reason as brought up by the OP then they should be aware of current events in the UK where companies like Amazon are making billions of pounds in the UK and paying virtually no tax - even though they use our roads and infrastructure to conduct their business.

Re: Dropbox is going brogue

#63
post #57

So, for everyone shouting "tax evasion": does that mean that any foreign company choosing to expand to Europe in Ireland is criminal?

tax evasion is illegal. Tax avoidance on the scale of Amazon, Google, Starbucks and Facebook is imoral.

It's pretty obvious that these companies have been strategically set up in Ireland as a way of paying less tax.

You think it's acceptable that Amazon sold billions of pounds of items in the UK and pay virtually no tax, but still use our roads to facilitate those sales. They basically use our infrastructure for free.

Would Amazon let me use a few EC2 instances for nothing, by increasing the hosting cost of everyone one else by a few cents, to host my multi-million dollar website?

Re: Dropbox is going brogue

#65
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you seen our Datacenter Infrastructure (Google, Amazon, Microsoft, etc)? have you seen our climate (mostly cold, perfect for said datacenters)? We have an educated workforce, are close to mainland Europe, and who doesn't want to work in the home of the Black Stuff (Guinness). Tax could be an incentive, but think of the rest we have also.

A native English speaking work force at lower salaries than in the UK helps too :-)

Though, these days, the median wage in Ireland is actually substantially higher than in the UK.

Re: Dropbox is going brogue

#66
post #3
post #2

Double Irish With a Dutch Sandwich Anyone? http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2012/04/28/business/Doubl...

Why else Ireland? I highly think it was picked for tax purposes.

Anyone dismissing this as purely a tax-play doesn't do service to the thriving, vibrant and diversive tech community that Dublin has. Anyone based here for even a few weeks would know that.

Dublin's #1 strength over places like London and Berlin is it's geographic size, which makes meetups accessible, leaders and role models available, and creates a friendly and familiar feel, where we all fee like we are part of something bigger than the startups that are here.

Side note: To anyone here on HN visiting Dublin in the future, feel free to connect with us, you'd be very welcome -- @ me on Twitter... @EamonLeonard

Re: Dropbox is going brogue

#67
post #27

At first I was wondering why a Chinese translation had been omitted, but then I realized the service was blocked by the Great Firewall.

Funnily enough, there's probably more native Chinese speakers in Ireland than there are native Irish speakers!

Actually, there's around half the number of native Chinese speakers (~60k) as there is native Irish speakers (~120k).

Re: Dropbox is going brogue

#68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's just the 1 billion Chinese in the mainland. What about the 30 million living here in Taiwan and Hong Kong?

That's a smaller target audience than for any of the other languages they've provided translations for so far, so it makes sense that they haven't done it until now.

Well, except Irish ;)

Re: Dropbox is going brogue

#69
post #34

So basically, dropbox makes a public announcement to tell the world (and the shareholders) they're now engaging in tax evasion in Europe to make better profit. Hopefully they'll have a better story for the european authorities later on, not like starbucks, amazon or google: http://www.taxresearch.org.uk/Blog/2012/11/13/starbucks-goog...

"better profit" but only in the eyes of accountants, for a while.

The money you've paid less tax on is still offshore. If you want to bring it back to your country then you have to pay tax on it (minus what you've paid already overseas) so it's not just a simple scheme to minimise tax. If you need the money to maintain cash flow then you've got no real choice but to pay full whack on it to get it back into the US.

What many US companies are doing is hoarding huge piles of it overseas in the hope that the US will have another tax amnesty (like 2004) and they can bring it back in to the US without paying as much tax as they would have had they just paid it in the US in the first place.

Here's a simplified example based roughly on real figures.

Take a US company that makes a $1bn profit in a year. They would have to pay 35% tax on that if they kept it in the US.

Using a Double Irish Agreement and paying a $1bn fee to those foreign entities in Ireland/Cayman Islands they make $0 profit in the US and pay $0 corporation tax. In Ireland they pay 12.5% tax on that money, so Ireland get $125m.

Meanwhile the cash sits overseas and the US company can't use it. If they wanted to bring it back to the UK they'd need to pay a $225m tax bill (35% tax on $1bn minus what is paid overseas); it's unsurprisingly more complicated than that but we'll leave it simple. It's also earning interest overseas but we'll ignore that for this example.

What they can do is bung this $225m on the balance sheet as a future tax liability, since if the worst happens and they run in to cash flow problems they'd have to bring all of the original money back into the US and pay remaining tax on it. Ironically, this means they can offset even more profits against this liability.

Anyway, they wait until the US has a tax amnesty for bringing back money from overseas (last one in 2004) and then pay a fraction of the tax they would have originally. The current campaign is for an amnesty rate of just 5.25%

How much is this used, and on what scale?

If you believe the numbers in this article: http://news.yahoo.com/apples-phantom-taxes-hide-billions-pro... then Apple has $74bn in cash accounts overseas.

Re: Dropbox is going brogue

#70
post #25
post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why else Ireland? I highly think it was picked for tax purposes.

Why anywhere else? Ireland si the "India of Europe" (English fluency, low salaries, decent education) and it has the best tax arrangements among similar countries. Microsoft, Facebook, IBM and the likes, they all basically serve the EU market from Dublin, and it's been like that for 20 years -- the "Celtic Tiger" phenomenon was based on this sort of activity: combining EU membership, low taxes, low salaries and cultu…

I wouldn't say salaries are that low, Ireland has (or had until recently) one of the highest minimum wage and average industrial wages in the world. The recession has brought wages down somewhat, but you can't compare Ireland to India with regards to pay.
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