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The Coming Loop

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Re: The Coming Loop

#181

Post by wartywhoa23 »

yanis_t wrote: post #23

I keep thinking about at which point I should not force myself into the loop. As a developer I really like working on the code structure, making it clearer, thinking about good abstraction, breaking into modules, etc. I really take pleasure in it. At the same time I understand that at some point I am becoming the limiting factor. If the point of the software is benefit people, should I still care about how the code l…

> If the point of the software is benefit people, should I still care about how the code looks.

The answer is yes you should, as long as you want to keep software benefiting people.

Re: The Coming Loop

#182

Post by inline_always »

The bottleneck has always been the 'verification' and 'trust', that's why we have senior engineers, same way you need a head architect sign-off on a blueprint, because when things go bad you need a human agent to be the responsible party. Even if we manage to teach a herd of dumb AIs to produce massive amount of code, who's going to trust that output with their life?

Re: The Coming Loop

#183

Post by coldtea »

weego wrote: post #160

What does any of that mean in practice? it's just rambling about abstract concepts that seem to be designed to hint at a bigger picture, when it's just getting AI to write code for you. Is this where it's going? Having to mystify our roles so it seems like we're still the thought leaders when actually we're just becoming pseudo-teachers that try and herd our group of AI idiots to the right conclusion for us so we don…

Once you buy into the AI hype, you babble like that. Yegge is an even worse example.

Re: The Coming Loop

#184

Post by coldtea »

watutalkinbout wrote: post #171
SimianSci wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When someone is expected to be wizened and does not have the knowledge to keep up with the needs of those around them, they in turn become Shamanistic in their practice. The speed of improvement on these models has been incredible and has outpaced the learning speed of humans and put many experts into these Shamanistic roles. I think the operative means of addressing this is to recognize that we can only learn so qui…

Algorithms and data that emulate responses aren't smart. A 5 year old knows if you want to wash your car, you need to take it to the car wash.

Can a 5 year old write a substantial program on spec, that passes the requirements and given tests, in a few minutes?

If not, then perhaps this comparison is not the be all end all.

"A ship is useless, it can't drive over land..."

Re: The Coming Loop

#185

Post by goatlover »

cadamsdotcom wrote: post #72
yanis_t wrote: post #23

I keep thinking about at which point I should not force myself into the loop. As a developer I really like working on the code structure, making it clearer, thinking about good abstraction, breaking into modules, etc. I really take pleasure in it. At the same time I understand that at some point I am becoming the limiting factor. If the point of the software is benefit people, should I still care about how the code l…

You will always be able to ask the agent to do refactors for you - and it can do mega ones that exhaust you to think about!

Or you can do it yourself. Use AI as a prototyping tool or for boring throw away tasks. There's no reason everyone has to succumb to vibe coding.

Re: The Coming Loop

#186

Post by wahnfrieden »

weego wrote: post #160

What does any of that mean in practice? it's just rambling about abstract concepts that seem to be designed to hint at a bigger picture, when it's just getting AI to write code for you. Is this where it's going? Having to mystify our roles so it seems like we're still the thought leaders when actually we're just becoming pseudo-teachers that try and herd our group of AI idiots to the right conclusion for us so we don…

Why is HN interested in management and team process discussion but allergic to similar topics on how to manage agents?

It’s like saying why discuss these team workflows when it’s just devs writing code. Or why use any jargon to describe workflows when it's just devs writing code.

Re: The Coming Loop

#188

Post by stuartaxelowen »

This blog post pints to the fact that you need information across scales to make really insightful products and software. You need to understand fundamental mechanisms, strengths, and risks of your software to know where to make bets next. You need to know about the “how” of your optimization system to know which customer asks to deny.

Using layers like the loops described here to abdicate your work is you decoupling from the joint market/engineering value you originally provided.

Re: The Coming Loop

#189

Post by wartywhoa23 »

Imustaskforhelp wrote: post #115
skepticATX wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, I am exhausted. Most of my company is obsessed with agents, because everyone wants to be seen as AI first. There is little thought going into usage. No care for long term maintainability and quality. Our product is actively worse by many metrics, but no one cares because we marketing can say “agents”. The sad part is that this technology is incredible. It’s us choosing to turn it into a slop cannon (and the labs…

This too shall pass. The journey was as important as the destination if not more because it gave confidence in oneself, it made us grow. I mean to suggest, coding for the sake of coding "I wish to code for myself, nothing else": (I had written this somewhere else on HN): https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48609962 If I may ask you and others, I assume that you are at a relatively decent position within your company…

TL;DR of this and many other comments:

Oh, AI is so good but it is so bad!

You guys got some severe personality split you'd better hurry up fixing.

Re: The Coming Loop

#190

Post by dominotw »

coldtea wrote: post #184
watutalkinbout wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Algorithms and data that emulate responses aren't smart. A 5 year old knows if you want to wash your car, you need to take it to the car wash.

Can a 5 year old write a substantial program on spec, that passes the requirements and given tests, in a few minutes? If not, then perhaps this comparison is not the be all end all. "A ship is useless, it can't drive over land..."

5 year olds and ai both have jagged intelligence.

also its AI not "artificial code generation intelligence" . Ship is your view of the product to shoehorn into something specific.

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