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The Coming Loop

lucumr.pocoo.org

161–170 of 322 posts

Re: The Coming Loop

#161
post #5

I'm a software developer from way back, using tools and languages that coding agents are far less familiar with. So when I use an agent to write code, it's in languages I'm less familiar with, and often using libraries I know nothing about. All to say, my part of the process often ends up being: 1. "Here's what I'm looking for, in detail" 2. "That's not right. Here's one way it's not right, and a specific example. Pl…

Have you tried SKILL.MD files encoding your nuanced domain knowledge?

Re: The Coming Loop

#163
I’m having awesome success working with recursive agents. I discussed my experience with them. [0]

> Claude's attention doesn't distinguish between "instructions I'm writing" and "instructions I'm following" -- they're both just tokens in context.

It takes a little human help in the first iterations but after a while it will start to iterate and improve unsupervised.

[0] https://github.com/adam-s/agent-tuning

Re: The Coming Loop

#164

I have had some success with /goal for long tasks that can be set up in a way that the agent can do good work for an extended period of time. A lot of tasks aren't amenable to that, and the ones that are still need a lot of care to be set up correctly. The default vibe coded codebase won't be. I've come to think of the activity of choosing the right technology, the right architecture, the right testing setup, the rig…

How much does /goal actually help? In auto mode, I've tried using and not using /goal and I haven't felt a difference.

https://code.claude.com/docs/en/goal#how-evaluation-works

> /goal is a wrapper around a session-scoped prompt-based Stop hook. Each time Claude finishes a turn, the condition and the conversation so far are sent to your configured small fast model, which defaults to Haiku. The model returns a yes-or-no decision and a short reason. A “no” tells Claude to keep working and includes the reason as guidance for the next turn. A “yes” clears the goal and records an achieved entry in the transcript.

> The evaluator runs on whichever provider your session is configured for. It does not call tools, so it can only judge what Claude has already surfaced in the conversation.

Apparently, it uses Haiku (by default) to evaluate every turn to determine if the goal has been achieved. However, it only relies on the transcript itself (including the reasoning of the main model). It can't independently verify if the goal has been achieved. So, if the main model thinks the goal is or isn't done, how often does Haiku disagree (in a productive way)? That's not clear to me.

Re: The Coming Loop

#165

For some reason pro-ai blog posts feel like paid ads, I might be wrong.

I can't blame you when the first few sentences almost always evoke one of the "creators of XYZ" (I don't know how you can say a model or model harness has a singular creator when the model was trained on everyone's data and the harness was built by a whole team?) and treats their word or experience as gospel.

Who cares what Cherny thinks? He is selling his product, and he will probably cash out soon enough while his credibility is as high as it is.

Re: The Coming Loop

#166
post #160

What does any of that mean in practice? it's just rambling about abstract concepts that seem to be designed to hint at a bigger picture, when it's just getting AI to write code for you. Is this where it's going? Having to mystify our roles so it seems like we're still the thought leaders when actually we're just becoming pseudo-teachers that try and herd our group of AI idiots to the right conclusion for us so we don…

When someone is expected to be wizened and does not have the knowledge to keep up with the needs of those around them, they in turn become Shamanistic in their practice.

The speed of improvement on these models has been incredible and has outpaced the learning speed of humans and put many experts into these Shamanistic roles.

I think the operative means of addressing this is to recognize that we can only learn so quickly, but we are still called to improve our knowledge and understanding to a higher level. Since the improvement of these models is neither logorithmic, nor exponential, we currently occupy a space in time in which the models are currently smarter on average than we are as a collective whole.

Re: The Coming Loop

#169

> the right fix is not "handle every malformed case." ... [LLMs] will still attempt to handle now impossible errors. This is the number one code smell from LLMs and I don't know why they are so obsessed with it. In python, it often comes as `hasattr` checks on types that are defined to have that attribute, in a code base that is fully type-checked. Why do they do that? Is it from pre-training or re-enforcement? If th…

million times this - getattr on every dataclass is a wild choice

Re: The Coming Loop

#170
post #160

What does any of that mean in practice? it's just rambling about abstract concepts that seem to be designed to hint at a bigger picture, when it's just getting AI to write code for you. Is this where it's going? Having to mystify our roles so it seems like we're still the thought leaders when actually we're just becoming pseudo-teachers that try and herd our group of AI idiots to the right conclusion for us so we don…

From my past experience of religion at various levels I am very often reminded of borderline-cult religious meetings, and the zeal of converts repeating gnomic oversimplifications, and of how exhausting it was to try to engage with them on any topic of substance.

My own feeling is that it is totally OK to simply route around these people.

It's fascinating how many of the "keep your identity small" folks in the YC/HN sphere have lost any sense of perspective at the first sign of a technology that wanders into the philosophical realm. AI-oriented identities are everywhere.

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