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Digital euro clears key hurdle as EU seeks to break free from U.S. credit cards

finance.yahoo.com

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Re: Digital euro clears key hurdle as EU seeks to break free from U.S. credit cards

#161

Post by alephnerd »

__rito__ wrote: post #145
izacus wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is literally what the article is about - Digital Euro and Wero are two competing solutions that are debated right now.

Wero isn’t a physical card if I am getting this right. RuPay is. You get a physical cc/dc with RuPay as provider instead of MC/Visa. If I am not missing something, Wero is not that. That is what I wanted to know: why not a traditional, homegrown card that is a direct 1-to-1 alternative of MC/Visa cards? Does that not make sense for the EU now? Why?

> why not a traditional, homegrown card that is a direct 1-to-1 alternative of MC/Visa cards

Because the European market is fragmented. France, Italy, Germany, etc all have some sort of established localized payment system and in some states like Ireland and the Netherlands are entirely dependent on Visa.

There is no "pan-European" bank and individual states still care about their sovereignity. France will continue to back and support BNP and Credit Agricole against Germany's Deutsche Bank (and vice versa). The only solution at that point is to just bypass the whole problem and just go directly with mobile payments.

Additionally, China, India, and Brazil began building their DPD stack in the 2000s but European states didn't start until the last 2-3 years.

Re: Digital euro clears key hurdle as EU seeks to break free from U.S. credit cards

#162

Post by amarcheschi »

retired wrote: post #105
amarcheschi wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe in the past, but nowadays you can call your bank for a charge back or you have an option in the banking apps I do have to say though, that with customer protection laws we have it has never happened to hear about a friend getting a charge back from the bank, usually you go to the seller first (or the platform if you got scammed) and you get refunded there

I’m European and protection laws are nice to have but if a shop doesn’t refund you those laws don’t automatically give you your money back. That is where a credit-card comes in handy. I don’t know any bank that offers this protection on a debit-card.

Yes, but even then you can usually go to the bank, at least in italy despite not being called chargeback you can ask a refund for scams or similar issues. More modern fintech banks give you this option directly in the app, otherwise you might need to chat with an operator

At least here I see online that there's the possibility to do so (even with debt cards). However, I guess that with a credit card it is going to be less annoying for you, or any way easier for you, since it's their money on the table and not yours

I'm talking about italy btw

Edit I also think that prepaid cards here are what have less protection

Re: Digital euro clears key hurdle as EU seeks to break free from U.S. credit cards

#163

Post by __rito__ »

lxgr wrote: post #148
__rito__ wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is Wero something you can hold in your hands? RuPay is just like Visa/Mastercard in the sense you get physical cards that you can use at ATMs, use at ecomm sites, etc. Wero doesn’t seem to be that. Am I missing something? Does making a new direct alternative to Visa/MC doesn’t make sense for the EU? If so, why?

Cards (as implemented in the US at least, i.e., with individual purchases not confirmed by the cardholder) are a relic of a different time in many ways. If you're building out a brand new system, why not make use of the computing device with input/output capabilities (that can be used to confirm amount, payee etc.) almost everybody already has in their pocket/purse anyway and instead rely on merchants being honest an…

Okay, thanks. I get it.

ATM cards are still safer than mobile based payments.

Elderly fraud in the US, scam/fraud calls and digital arrests in India are made possible by social engineering attacks and duping people.

For ATMs, if one has online transactions turned off (default option when you get a new card in India for most if not all cards), it is impossible. One has to walk to an ATM in a crowded place, insert the card, enter a PIN, and can only then withdraw money.

Millions in India use debit cards this way.

Re: Digital euro clears key hurdle as EU seeks to break free from U.S. credit cards

#164

Post by lxgr »

nswango wrote: post #149
retired wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And most Europeans that have a credit-card need to pay them off at the end of the month. Technically they are charge cards. Unlike a traditional credit card, a charge card does not allow you to carry a revolving balance.

This is not true. Plenty of Europeans have credit cards which work exactly like US credit cards. The main difference between credit cards in Europe and in the US is that poor people can't get them here.

Let's not pretend that predatory lending is not a thing in at least some EU countries as well, just because it takes other forms (installment payments, buy now pay later etc.), but as a general trend, I'd agree that it's much less common.

Re: Digital euro clears key hurdle as EU seeks to break free from U.S. credit cards

#165

Post by lxgr »

__rito__ wrote: post #163
lxgr wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cards (as implemented in the US at least, i.e., with individual purchases not confirmed by the cardholder) are a relic of a different time in many ways. If you're building out a brand new system, why not make use of the computing device with input/output capabilities (that can be used to confirm amount, payee etc.) almost everybody already has in their pocket/purse anyway and instead rely on merchants being honest an…

Okay, thanks. I get it. ATM cards are still safer than mobile based payments. Elderly fraud in the US, scam/fraud calls and digital arrests in India are made possible by social engineering attacks and duping people. For ATMs, if one has online transactions turned off (default option when you get a new card in India for most if not all cards), it is impossible. One has to walk to an ATM in a crowded place, insert the…

> ATM cards are still safer than mobile based payments.

> For ATMs, if one has online transactions turned off (default option when you get a new card in India for most if not all cards), it is impossible. One has to walk to an ATM in a crowded place, insert the card, enter a PIN, and can only then withdraw money.

So you're really saying that not being able to transact cashlessly at all is safer than being able to do so? I'd agree, but it's also somewhat inconvenient.

Re: Digital euro clears key hurdle as EU seeks to break free from U.S. credit cards

#166

Post by unsigner »

This sounds like "government issue Revolut". Which would be... low-key nice? Not a nefarious scheme, not a revolutionary future of money, just something to replace a certain part of your financial life without tying it to a commercial entity. Which might be appealing to the anti-capitalism segment of Europeans.

Re: Digital euro clears key hurdle as EU seeks to break free from U.S. credit cards

#167

Post by orf »

larkost wrote: post #88
Hikikomori wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We just don't have that much fraud instead.

I don't have numbers for you, but I do know that every European I know is much more worried about card fraud than the Americans I know. One quick example is that the Europeans get very nervous when the waiter takes the credit card away from the table in the U.S.. This is just not done in Europe because there is a (at least perceived) history of skimming in much of Europe. One big difference is that in the U.S. cardho…

US card fraud rate is significantly higher than in the EU. In 2015 it was about 0.042% in the EU, vs 0.1388% for the US. The 2021 rates for the EU fell to ~0.028%.

You get nervous about giving your card to a waiter because you’re in a foreign place with a nonsense payment system worst than most developing countries and it’s not something you’re ever asked to do anywhere else.

Re: Digital euro clears key hurdle as EU seeks to break free from U.S. credit cards

#168

Post by basisword »

petcat wrote: post #18
basisword wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A vast majority of card transactions in the EU are done via debit card. Credit card accounts for only around 25% vs debit. And the only place I've swiped my card was once, in the US, about 15 years ago.

> Credit card accounts for only around 25% If this is true then what will this new "digital Euro" change about the reliance on US credit cards? It seems that the 25% of people that are swiping US credit cards are doing it for the convenience and benefits of using a credit card. Will this digital euro change that?

Debit cards also use Visa and Mastercard

Re: Digital euro clears key hurdle as EU seeks to break free from U.S. credit cards

#169

Post by PNewling »

lxgr wrote: post #109
cloudengineer94 wrote: post #64

Reminder to the people reading this thread and overall comments, that in Europe everyone uses Debit Cards instead of Credit Cards. Credit Card in Europe is very much associated with Debt.

Reminder to all commenters that Europe is not a single homogeneous country and somewhat diverse in various things, including payments and finance. Credit cards are definitely a thing in many European countries.

As an outsider: which countries lean which way? I'm curious how things trend where and I didn't even really know that debit was used by a majority in certain places (Countries? Regions? Historical based delimiters?).

Re: Digital euro clears key hurdle as EU seeks to break free from U.S. credit cards

#170

Post by tomp »

cloudengineer94 wrote: post #64

Reminder to the people reading this thread and overall comments, that in Europe everyone uses Debit Cards instead of Credit Cards. Credit Card in Europe is very much associated with Debt.

which is in fact a massive pain in the ass, because car rentals and hotels often require credit cards to make reservations (at least in my experience...)
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