Crypto in 2026: Oh, This Is the Bad Place • Hacker News Board

Re: Crypto in 2026: Oh, This Is the Bad Place

#401

Post by lxgr » Tue, Jun 23, 2026, 4:57 PM UTC

sunshine-o wrote: post #368

lxgr wrote: post #268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

DAI (now called USDS) is largely backed by assets well within reach of US financial regulators these days, no? Even a few years ago, it was mostly backed by USDT and USDC, which both can be frozen by their respective issuer. I don't think any of the non-custodial stablecoins had a very good track record even just in the medium term. Overcollateralized crypto-backed stablecoins are exposed to the market value risk of…

Yes. So DAI is a distinct system from USDS. The relationship is the creator of DAI is the same as USDS and I believe his new organisation maintains the legacy DAI contract and system. If I remember correctly, the DAI model was beautiful: - Instead of getting your DAI from an exchange, you could deploy your own instance of a vault, lock your ETH as collateral in it and mint DAI. - So it was not a unique vault for ever…

That's a beautiful model only on paper. In practice it didn't quite work out, DAI has several times broken its peg (often upwards, but that's still a problem), and they switched to backing it with more and more traditional stablecoins for stability. This was all before the rebrand to USDS.

> Instead of getting your DAI from an exchange, you could deploy your own instance of a vault, lock your ETH as collateral in it and mint DAI.

Most people that might want to use stablecoins don't have any suitable collateral lying around, so they're dependent on being able to buy or sell it at par. If that peg breaks, the utility of the stablecoin decreases.

Re: Crypto in 2026: Oh, This Is the Bad Place

#402

Post by __MatrixMan__ » Tue, Jun 23, 2026, 4:58 PM UTC

win311fwg wrote: post #392

__MatrixMan__ wrote: post #383

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the debts were spread around evenly, I'd agree with you. But the vast majority of debt is not peer to peer, but instead goes through a bank. If you're going to restrict a bank from using your mortgage to enable loans for endeavors that will hurt you (or selling the debt to somebody who will do this), I think you do need a new kind of accounting.

Accounting predates banks. You do not need to invent some kind of new accounting system to rid yourself of banks. That said, banks do provide a useful service for many people. However, that service doesn't magically happen. One has to choose the bank they are comfortable employing. Which, again, requires an interview before accepting a bank to work for you. That is where you can make sure the bank you choose to utili…

It's totally impractical to interview everybody who has ever offered you money for some reason, figure out how they got it, and how they got it, and determine if that set of people is working to undermine your efforts, just so you can decide whether to accept the money. The information burden is just too high, so people simply don't do it. We turn a blind eye to the cases when our work harms our neighbors, they do the same regarding us, and we all end up with less because of it. We could all have more if we automated that computational burden and instead just refused to participate in the negative externalities by refusing money that drives them.

But it requires types of debt which are not exchangable for one another. Whether it's working to take us to Mars or it's working to provide healthcare to our neighbors is something that debt should declare directly, it should not require a duplicate investigation at each transaction.

Re: Crypto in 2026: Oh, This Is the Bad Place

#403

Post by pixl97 » Tue, Jun 23, 2026, 4:59 PM UTC

JyB wrote: post #276

nradov wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fiat currency isn't just a matter of belief or stories. If you interact with the US financial system in any significant way then you're likely to end up owing some income taxes, and those can only be paid in US dollars. If you don't pay then eventually law enforcement officers will seize your assets (real estate, cattle, gold, cryptocurrency, whatever) by force and auction them off to settle your tax debt. And if you…

While that is true, the overarching point is that it fundamentally still is, just a story. You're just describing real world consequences, precisely because humans/societies believe in that story and enforce it.

Society is a story, not a chemical reaction. People like the story of money because the stories that had gold coins or barter sucked a lot worse.

Re: Crypto in 2026: Oh, This Is the Bad Place

#404

Post by rsynnott » Tue, Jun 23, 2026, 4:59 PM UTC

SquareWheel wrote: post #5

Note that this post includes a major spoiler for the show The Good Place . The show is fantastic, so I'd suggest not reading unless you've already finished season 1, or have decided it's not for you.

It is, in fairness, a pretty common trope. See also https://www.smbc-comics.com/index.php?db=comics&id=936 , and also Iain M Banks' Surface Detail; both predate _The Good Place_.

(WARNING: The above comic contains the same spoiler as the article, more or less.)

Re: Crypto in 2026: Oh, This Is the Bad Place

#405

Post by echelon » Tue, Jun 23, 2026, 5:01 PM UTC

hirako2000 wrote: post #277

echelon wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Crypto exists to make early crypto holders money. You get in on the speculative promise of making yourself wealthy. It's sold to you by the people at the top, and the message is amplified by the grifters and the pick mes in their orbit. It's never been a convenient exchange of money. If they'd focused on this, maybe the argument would have worked. Instead, it's wacky and has the worst UX of any banking apparatus in t…

Migration for certain prominent projects is already underway, e.g Ethereum.

It's too late.

How are you going to mass migrate all of the cold, dark wallets?

It's not going to happen because it requires conscious, deliberate, careful migration on the part of the wallet owners. You won't even be able to contact or warn most of them, let alone get them to understand the process.

Probably half the value in Ethereum and Bitcoin will be popped this way.

Re: Crypto in 2026: Oh, This Is the Bad Place

#406

Post by derangedHorse » Tue, Jun 23, 2026, 5:02 PM UTC

prewett wrote: post #358

rglullis wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. Cryptocurrency is useful as as a backup system against failing/weak institutions. Just that. Like insurance, it was not there to make anyone's lives better but simply to become a safeguard to avoid complete collapse.

It doesn't even do that. If there's complete collapse, there won't be a reliable network to transact over, and not reliable electricity to run the network and do the processing.

What are you thinking of when you say "complete collapse"? Zimbabwe's currency collapsed yet they still had access to electricity and a networks. It sounds like you're envisioning an apocalypse.

Re: Crypto in 2026: Oh, This Is the Bad Place

#407

Post by blenklo » Tue, Jun 23, 2026, 5:02 PM UTC

skybrian wrote: post #364

blenklo wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And they also make their place they live and the rest of the planet a tiny bit worse due to the energy consumption of bitcoin, if they support bitcoin in any form even with lightning. A question though: How do they exchange their crypto into local fiat?

They’re more likely to use a stablecoin and those don’t use Bitcoin.

I checked the internet and it seems el salvador uses bitcoin while in lebanon there is a mix of bitcoin + Lightning and Tether.

Tether is investing in US Bonds but 10% seem to be Bitcoin.

Re: Crypto in 2026: Oh, This Is the Bad Place

#408

Post by win311fwg » Tue, Jun 23, 2026, 5:02 PM UTC

__MatrixMan__ wrote: post #402

win311fwg wrote: post #392

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Accounting predates banks. You do not need to invent some kind of new accounting system to rid yourself of banks. That said, banks do provide a useful service for many people. However, that service doesn't magically happen. One has to choose the bank they are comfortable employing. Which, again, requires an interview before accepting a bank to work for you. That is where you can make sure the bank you choose to utili…

It's totally impractical to interview everybody who has ever offered you money for some reason, figure out how they got it, and how they got it, and determine if that set of people is working to undermine your efforts, just so you can decide whether to accept the money. The information burden is just too high, so people simply don't do it. We turn a blind eye to the cases when our work harms our neighbors, they do th…

> figure out how they got it

They got it by you accepting their promise to deliver something of value in the future. If nobody out there is willing to accept their promise of delivering future value, they don't have anything. That's the whole abstraction. It is materialized out of thin air when you agree to accept the promise.

Some new kind of hypothetical accounting system cannot possibly change anything. It will always be a hindsight account of the promise that was made. The only possible change is for you to tackle the promises themselves. Which requires talking to people. That is where the promises are made.

Re: Crypto in 2026: Oh, This Is the Bad Place

#409

Post by himata4113 » Tue, Jun 23, 2026, 5:07 PM UTC

notpushkin wrote: post #313

raincole wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a very weird comment as people who actually use crypto (not flipping or holding) are those who without other viable choices. They're not replacing something. Those transactions would simply not happen without crypto. Notice that the parent comment didn't use the word replacing .

This. Wise is good as long as you can open an account there. For many people this is not a viable option.

Yep, they can open a wise account to send money, but they cannot receive money using WISE, they have to open a business account to receive money and they cannot open one in their countries.

Re: Crypto in 2026: Oh, This Is the Bad Place

#410

Post by __MatrixMan__ » Tue, Jun 23, 2026, 5:08 PM UTC

win311fwg wrote: post #408

__MatrixMan__ wrote: post #402

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's totally impractical to interview everybody who has ever offered you money for some reason, figure out how they got it, and how they got it, and determine if that set of people is working to undermine your efforts, just so you can decide whether to accept the money. The information burden is just too high, so people simply don't do it. We turn a blind eye to the cases when our work harms our neighbors, they do th…

> figure out how they got it They got it by you accepting their promise to deliver something of value in the future. If nobody out there is willing to accept their promise of delivering future value, they don't have anything. That's the whole abstraction. It is materialized out of thin air when you agree to accept the promise. Some new kind of hypothetical accounting system cannot possibly change anything. It will al…

Hey thanks for this discussion. I've gotta run, but I appreciate the willingness to engage with my weird ideas, even if you're unconvinced that it's a problem that "something of value" means something wildly different things depending on who you ask.