Live data from Hacker News

Wikipedia cofounder Larry Sanger blocked from editing Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

31–40 of 259 posts

Re: Wikipedia cofounder Larry Sanger blocked from editing Wikipedia

#31
So to summarize:

he resuggested "WikiProject Intellectual Diversity", a group with the goal to make "Wikipedia more intellectually diverse" and "ensure fair and open decision-making and governance, broaden the range of permissible sources, reinforce genuine neutrality, rein in over-aggressive blocking while holding the powerful to higher standards of accountability", etc, with the implied undertone of preventing Wikipedia from drifting too far to the political left.

This is unpopular because people oppose this on various grounds (mostly that it might be vote brigading and tiling decisions in their favor just by showing up in an organised way around wikipedia). Also the same project was apparently suggested before and rejected in early stages

But then he made a tweet that basically just says "I suggested this, some people like it, some hate it". That's super against the rules, because it attracts people to the proposal who otherwise wouldn't have seen it. Probably in an attempt to sway discussion, because his tweets are obviously seen primarily by people who like his ideas

Which then lead to the vote to ban him from editing Wikipedia. With a total ban getting more votes than a more limited ban, like banning him from participating in articles namespaced for internal matters

Is that about right?

Re: Wikipedia cofounder Larry Sanger blocked from editing Wikipedia

#32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

did you read the reason why he was blocked? I can't say who's right or wrong but their reasons for blocking him seem to be valid in nature.

I found the thread hard to parse.[0]. Can you explain the reason? from a brief skim he is promoting some project he wants to start in wikipedia from outside wikipedia, is that it or did I misunderstand? [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators'_noti...

> There is general agreement among participants that he has engaged in off-wiki canvassing and is not here to constructively build the encyclopedia. There is also a significant concern shared by many editors that his actions constitute calls for outing.

Re: Wikipedia cofounder Larry Sanger blocked from editing Wikipedia

#33

trying to contribute to wikipedia was the most miserable experience in a "collaborative" process I've ever had in my life. Like arguing with cranks at a town hall meeting, ignorant high school group project classmates, and bureaucracy-obsessed nonprofit initiative zealots all wrapped into one. in the area I was trying to contribute (a math subdomain) to there is sooooo much technical misinformation. but if you don't…

People often mention anecdotes like that when Wikipedia is discussed, but I made a few changes to pages over the years and never had any issues. I took care to follow the rules, and the changes were usually accepted; when they weren't, it was always for reasonable reasons, even if I didn't always agree with them.

Re: Wikipedia cofounder Larry Sanger blocked from editing Wikipedia

#34

Many of his essays have been deleted, and many others are Pending Deletion. Those deleted can be viewed only by admins. There is a large movement to censor this guy's opinions and undo his contributions. What happened? There is no explicit mention on the page.

>There is a large movement to censor this guy's opinions

Wikipedia is the wrong place for opinions

Re: Wikipedia cofounder Larry Sanger blocked from editing Wikipedia

#35
post #22

As an outsider the accusation "Canvassing" seems like a double edged sword. Similar to Reddits "Brigading" but without the hostile intention. It's not clear to me, how Wikipedia prevents this rule from being used inappropriately to silence people.

Correct, and Administrators (and users invoking administrators) will often selectively use rules to pursue editorial purposes.

I learned about wikipedia rules before learning about actual law, it's interesting to see exactly how the mechanisms of modern democracy protect against the specific ways in which Wikipedia fails:

1- Separation of powers between rulemakers and judges. In practice many Administrators who have the power to enforce rules and bans are actually editing articles themselves!

2- Ignore all rules, certainly crazy, it makes the rules an afterthought, it reminds me a bit of the Common Law focus on Case Law as opposed to Napoleonic Civil Law's focus on codified laws, but way stronger.

3- No or weak procedure. Imagine you are in a legal fight with another editor, and you say a bad word, woops, turns out that's a 2 day ban. Maybe there's a parallel with contempt of court? But what happens in wikipedia is that the whole edit war is lost on that technicality, Administrators don't rule in favour of one edit or the other, they distribute penalties to one part or the other and if one party is temp banned, they can't edit the article anymore and the article state the other party desires has a stability and consensus advantage. The only exception are protected articles, in which case administrators can emit an official ruling on what the article content should be.

Re: Wikipedia cofounder Larry Sanger blocked from editing Wikipedia

#36
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If there's one article that shows the problem with Wikipedia it's the one you're quoting and it's sister https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_Marxism_conspiracy_th... which says that cultural marxism is an anti-semitic conspiracy theory. And then you read https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frankfurt_School and leave confused... Edit: for example, here's a passage from the wiki page on frankfurt school. Adorno and Horkhe…

[flagged]

Are you implying I'm a Nazi for thinking that there's a cultural component to Marxist thought some of which is present in modern culture?!

If I misunderstood your comment, I apologize

Re: Wikipedia cofounder Larry Sanger blocked from editing Wikipedia

#37

There is a link in the other comments that is intended to explain the context, but as someone who isn't familiar with the structure of threads / conversations in the Wikipedia editing community, I am honestly struggling to follow it. Can someone here please help me understand what the issue is? (I keep seeing stuff in that linked article about canvassing and "the left marching through institutions" but again I'm not…

it appears that larry sanger used twitter to promote an active wiki-related proposal (" WikiProject Intellectual Diversity "), and that is bad.

It seems like there's a policy against this. I don't think having rules only apply to rank-and-file members rather than founders is better in the long run.

Re: Wikipedia cofounder Larry Sanger blocked from editing Wikipedia

#38

trying to contribute to wikipedia was the most miserable experience in a "collaborative" process I've ever had in my life. Like arguing with cranks at a town hall meeting, ignorant high school group project classmates, and bureaucracy-obsessed nonprofit initiative zealots all wrapped into one. in the area I was trying to contribute (a math subdomain) to there is sooooo much technical misinformation. but if you don't…

>in the area I was trying to contribute (a math subdomain) to there is sooooo much technical misinformation. but if you don't have an intimate knowledge of all the details of the editing bylaws, and seemingly infinite time to be able to litigate your case, it's almost impossible to get any of these edits through when the original page author is sufficiently motivated to prevent them.

As someone that has battled with this, I agree, but in my experience more often than not, the people that complain are complaining about basic rules like "stuff should have external citations". So I can't really pick either side.

Re: Wikipedia cofounder Larry Sanger blocked from editing Wikipedia

#39

trying to contribute to wikipedia was the most miserable experience in a "collaborative" process I've ever had in my life. Like arguing with cranks at a town hall meeting, ignorant high school group project classmates, and bureaucracy-obsessed nonprofit initiative zealots all wrapped into one. in the area I was trying to contribute (a math subdomain) to there is sooooo much technical misinformation. but if you don't…

Same thing for me when I used to contribute to our local transit system's page. Things were fine for years but one day an editor for some reason took an interest in me and started going after my contributions for all manner of petty legalistic policies that were usually "best practices" rather than rules. He even moved on to my edits on other pages, which mostly were where I'd corrected a spelling or formatting error…

It's a dangerous to go alone out there!

Take this.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Hounding

Re: Wikipedia cofounder Larry Sanger blocked from editing Wikipedia

#40
post #34

Many of his essays have been deleted, and many others are Pending Deletion. Those deleted can be viewed only by admins. There is a large movement to censor this guy's opinions and undo his contributions. What happened? There is no explicit mention on the page.

>There is a large movement to censor this guy's opinions Wikipedia is the wrong place for opinions

Having opinions on Wikipedia policies is perfectly appropriate.
Post reply on HN