my experimental looping build on top of pi and zx
mostly pi deep seek and some skills ;-)
https://github.com/topce/pizx
The Coming Loop
11–20 of 322 posts
Re: The Coming Loop
#12We used a “loop” before it was called that to drive MS-DOC support into Tritium. Based on that experience, I take issue with this:
“There are already impressive examples of large automatic porting efforts, including the reported work around moving parts of Bun from Zig to Rust.” (Emphasis added.)
It will be impressive if/when the Bun team is able to pick up and continue extending and supporting Bun. For us, MS-DOC remains read-only and probably perpetually buggy until we reimplement with a better understanding. Until then, it’s definitely not “impressive”. Functional? Maybe. Impressive, no.
Re: The Coming Loop
#13Quoting the creator of CC holds little value in my opinion. I too call my product good. > opting out of this fully machine-driven future may not be an option. I am contemplating whether I want to stay inside this rat race. I completely agree with the conclusion of this blog post, by the way. I feel uneasy, and I do not enjoy the work I deliver using LLMs. I think OP did a really good job on capturing at least my curr…
> I feel uneasy, and I do not enjoy the work I deliver using LLMs. I have basically stopped writing code in my spare time since the advent of AI. Before I felt like I was working on a classic car. Was it a practical use of my time? No. I could go out and download software that did what I wanted. Did I have fun doing it? Yes, the act of working on it was important, I felt I was still learning and improving as I did. N…
I'm the opposite, couldn't be bothered to work on code outside of work. Barely did at work because I was more focused on wrangling a small army of shitty contractors (thanks strategic partner initiative for firing all of our small shop contractors and replacing them with morons from "offshore").
Now with LLMs I find myself doing small projects that interest me or have some utility for me outside of work, and doing a lot more development in the codebases at work outside of just review/docs/arch than I was before. Also making small tools that I find pleasant/useful but were not important enough to spend time on before.
Re: The Coming Loop
#14Loops work when you spend the proper amount of time to understand what you want ahead of time. The prerequisite is clarity — enough clarity that you could write a careful specification that you could hand off to a junior colleague.
Often, it takes 5-6 broken crappy versions of a thing until you understand that. There is no accelerating the 5-6 broken crappy versions - there’s no agent tech that’s going to help your meat brain avoid thinking time.
So most of my time is iterating between these two phases: I don’t understand what I want, I need to read and write and play with code, okay it’s been long enough I think I know what I want (it is extremely easy to deceive yourself) … okay now I do actually know what I want and I can write a loop.
Many people think they can jump ahead with agents. You cannot fake understanding or clarity. It is painfully obviously when someone skipped that meat brain understanding phase.
Re: The Coming Loop
#15My own thoughts on this, with examples https://github.com/nfcampos/loop-dev/blob/main/README.md
Re: The Coming Loop
#16Quoting the creator of CC holds little value in my opinion. I too call my product good. > opting out of this fully machine-driven future may not be an option. I am contemplating whether I want to stay inside this rat race. I completely agree with the conclusion of this blog post, by the way. I feel uneasy, and I do not enjoy the work I deliver using LLMs. I think OP did a really good job on capturing at least my curr…
I and my friends go back and forth, every day, on whether coding with LLMs is a net plus or a net negative.
I'm at the point where I think it's dumb to not do it but also dumb to do it. I have no real answer.
I have settled on using LLMs for everything but to spend more time honing the quality and cleanliness with LLM passes afterwards than I generally would have taken to write it well myself in the first place. This is in some ways the worst of both worlds, but it somehow lets me bypass akrasia while still getting pretty good code out, so I consider it superior to how I worked before. I get more done in three months even if I get less done in a day.
Re: The Coming Loop
#17> For now I have not moved past the point of comprehension being important to me. Ah ! This is me too... at least for what I have to ship at work. Not so much for my toy/weekend projects. But it turns out agents are also good at explaining.
I think it's insane to suggest that software developers should ever get to the point where they don't even comprehend their code. Before someone else says it, no I don't read the assembly code that is produced by my compilers. However, I can generally predict what kind of assembly will be produced, and the result is deterministic unlike LLMs. It seems like most vibe coders scoff at the idea of even looking at the cod…
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Re: The Coming Loop
#18My own thoughts on this, with examples https://github.com/nfcampos/loop-dev/blob/main/README.md
Are those your own thoughts? Or Claude's? I tried to read but had to stop a few paragraphs in because of Claude's annoying authorial voice.
Re: The Coming Loop
#19Yeah I don't know. Don't get me wrong, the article points makes sense. But sometimes I think that we're going to stay near this current point of productivity for a little while.
Currently my org of 8 people use around 1000 euro worth of tokens per month. We've recently had a discussion near the water-cooler, that if the cost climbs 5x-10x it may be just more worth it to get more developers (we're EU based). While the tools work and are definitely nice, even in our little org with our little budget, using Opus 4.8 we've noticed code quality going down.
If I had to bet money, I'd bet that the models will get 30-50% more nice, around 2x more expensive and we will settle into some mode where we'll use llms for some tasks, manually doing others and calling places focusing on speed at any cost some funny name like "gulags, 996, sweatshops, etc" and collectively try to somewhat avoid those places, which will need to offer a premium to attract talent. Wishful thinking.
Re: The Coming Loop
#20My own thoughts on this, with examples https://github.com/nfcampos/loop-dev/blob/main/README.md
Are those your own thoughts? Or Claude's? I tried to read but had to stop a few paragraphs in because of Claude's annoying authorial voice.
No, they really are my thoughts, I've been doing this stuff pretty much every day for the past 6 months