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VibeThinker: 3B param model that beats Opus 4.5 on reasoning with novel SFT+GRPO

arxiv.org

101–110 of 226 posts

Re: VibeThinker: 3B param model that beats Opus 4.5 on reasoning with novel SFT+GRPO

#101
I have been thinking about how to use this. Since it doesn’t support tool calling I have been considering a dual model deployment, where a small tool calling llm drives the majority of the user experience, and vibe thinker is tapped for reasoning by the other llm.

So who has suggestions on small models with excellent tool calling capabilities?

Re: VibeThinker: 3B param model that beats Opus 4.5 on reasoning with novel SFT+GRPO

#102
post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This has been my dream ever since. Instead of encoding "all the knowledge" into those parameters, how about just making a model that has the same size, but all (or rather most) it does is reasoning? Just give it the ability to browse the net (e.g. language specifications, documentation and best practices) and just have it do its thing. Why does my coding agent need to know the population of New York, know a cheese ca…

I think this is a well known concept, which we can't deliver yet. LLM/transformer give us reasoning engine as a byproduct of its design, but it is quite ineffective. If we can distill reasoning, if reasoning can be achieved without general knowledge, it will be a very effective machine. Some amount of knowledge is required for reasoning. Maybe such model can dynamically knowledge domains to have taxonomy. For example…

Yup, you still need knowledge. Even if you have access to all the data and tools, you still need to know what to search for, what tools to use and to understand what the user is asking.

Our computers can already do everything, have access to all the tools and information, yet they still need a human/intelligence to use it and apply to specific problems.

Even defining the problem requires knowledge.

As for the tools, if the model has access to 1000 tools, how would it know which one to use if it doesn't have any knowledge itself?

What if I ask for "table tennis spin" it had a "magnus effect calculator", how would it know to make the connection between the two?

Re: VibeThinker: 3B param model that beats Opus 4.5 on reasoning with novel SFT+GRPO

#103

I have been thinking about how to use this. Since it doesn’t support tool calling I have been considering a dual model deployment, where a small tool calling llm drives the majority of the user experience, and vibe thinker is tapped for reasoning by the other llm. So who has suggestions on small models with excellent tool calling capabilities?

granite 4

Re: VibeThinker: 3B param model that beats Opus 4.5 on reasoning with novel SFT+GRPO

#105

I have been thinking about how to use this. Since it doesn’t support tool calling I have been considering a dual model deployment, where a small tool calling llm drives the majority of the user experience, and vibe thinker is tapped for reasoning by the other llm. So who has suggestions on small models with excellent tool calling capabilities?

Maybe bonsai 8b would make the duo, if you do try it, pls post here as I'm a bit curious too.

Re: VibeThinker: 3B param model that beats Opus 4.5 on reasoning with novel SFT+GRPO

#106
post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Education had this sad 15 year period where it thought “competences” are all you need. Turns out that without the world knowledge to have a base of facts, it is not.

Basically: you can't teach people to think without giving them some facts and ideas to think with. It's like trying to teach woodworking without giving the students any wood.

“Theoretical tennis”

Re: VibeThinker: 3B param model that beats Opus 4.5 on reasoning with novel SFT+GRPO

#107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Australia, you will see signs on freeway offramps pointing to any cars attempting to drive on to the freeway 'WRONG WAY GO BACK' [0] Though it is true you don't need to be able to read to operate a vehicle, you /do/ need to be able to read to operate a vehicle safely. And for those who can read: could you teach someone how to drive using an LLM? Sure. Safely? Probably not. [0] https://www.transport.nsw.gov.au/oper…

Most of the world follows the Vienna Convention on Road Signs and Signals, where all the important road signs are understandable without reading. This is how no entry signs look around the world [1] Especially important in places like Europe, where it's common for the driver to be able to read, but unable to speak the language of the country they are currently driving through. I can't speak any Polish, but can travel…

This. It’s bizarre to claim that it’s impossible to drive safely in a country where you don’t speak the language. I’ve driven plenty in remote parts of the Middle East despite not reading Arabic, and never once went into oncoming traffic.

Re: VibeThinker: 3B param model that beats Opus 4.5 on reasoning with novel SFT+GRPO

#109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most of the world follows the Vienna Convention on Road Signs and Signals, where all the important road signs are understandable without reading. This is how no entry signs look around the world [1] Especially important in places like Europe, where it's common for the driver to be able to read, but unable to speak the language of the country they are currently driving through. I can't speak any Polish, but can travel…

This. It’s bizarre to claim that it’s impossible to drive safely in a country where you don’t speak the language. I’ve driven plenty in remote parts of the Middle East despite not reading Arabic, and never once went into oncoming traffic.

I've had some close calls with roundabouts with one-way on/off roads, especially figuring out the bike lanes. None of it required reading but would have been safer for sure.

Then there is Hanoi.

Re: VibeThinker: 3B param model that beats Opus 4.5 on reasoning with novel SFT+GRPO

#110

Looks like we are seeing small but mighty model breakthroughs, outpacing the pure capital firepower of SOTA providers. I love rooting for the little guy, but is it too soon to call it? To play devils advocate, could it just be the benchmarks are not efficient enough to capture success of real developer workflows?

I've just started using qwen3.6:35b a couple days ago running on my framework desktop and rather impressed. It runs really well and reminds me of probably the first Claude model I used. It's the first local model that's actually working for me in a coding agent I've tried. Very exciting!
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