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Mexican government unveils a prototype for a new homegrown, ultra-affordable EV

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Re: Mexican government unveils a prototype for a new homegrown, ultra-affordable EV

#181

Post by CalRobert »

fluoridation wrote: post #95
dieselgate wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The car is designed for urban settings Huh, the speed limit is odd because in my urban/city driving in the western US (San Diego, LA, SF, Portland and Seattle) all major cities still basically necessitate non-zero highway driving. Even mopeds (and bicycles) can pretty easily exceed 31 mph. I've spent about 2 months total in Mexico City and there are still in-city areas where it'd be common to exceed 31 mph. The mai…

How many people do you know who can "easily" exceed 50 km/h on a bicycle?

They might be thinking of e-bikes that aren't regulated (at that point basically an electric motorcycle)

If not then maybe downhill....

Re: Mexican government unveils a prototype for a new homegrown, ultra-affordable EV

#182

Post by crusty »

bruce511 wrote: post #15

The Ford CEO is not wrong. Allowing foreign imports into the country at prices far below what US producers are able to make will decimate the local car industry in the US. There are 4 possible solutions to this problem; a) convince Americans that it's worth paying more for a locally built product. This is the simplest approach, but there's only so much margin here that the consumer will tolerate. At the moment this g…

One might wonder why the Ford CEO cares about low cost foreign cars when Ford doesn't even make any. They have shifted all of their lineup except one car model to higher- margin compact SUVs, SUVs, pickups, and full size commercial vans. And that one car, the mustang, another one marketing exercise on four wheels with accompanying margin markup - not exactly a practical entry level car.

Oh, but the poors but the used cars and competition for their business will lead to greater supply of used cars, diminishing the resale value they can point to to justify purchase of their high-margin vehicles. Can't have that now.

Re: Mexican government unveils a prototype for a new homegrown, ultra-affordable EV

#183

Post by Ekaros »

apparent wrote: post #19
Rotdhizon wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know absolutely nothing about Mexico in terms of geography or driving so I wonder how feasible an EV that you presumably constantly have to charge is going to fare. In the US, a range of 77 miles is a complete non starter. You'd have to charge it every single day. If not multiple times a day in some peoples cases. It's interesting that info about the car is only half the article. The other half is a commentary on h…

> In the US, a range of 77 miles is a complete non starter. You'd have to charge it every single day. If not multiple times a day in some peoples cases. It's true that some people drive more than 77 miles per day. But a pretty big chunk of people never do, except road trips/vacations. It could easily be worth it to buy a cheap EV for everyday use and then rent a vehicle for long trips.

It is weird point to be in. Almost a daily use of that range or significant part of it. As with less than daily use and short distances fuel is lot less critical. I am use case of going to shops a few times a week. Savings on fuel is not big thing as there isn't much used.

And then when I actually need to travel longer distances the range is much more important.

So EV would need to be very cheap to start making sense overall.

Re: Mexican government unveils a prototype for a new homegrown, ultra-affordable EV

#184

Post by Animats »

yellowapple wrote: post #101
1234letshaveatw wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are we just ignoring data now? Giant pickups have silly sales- silly in the crazy high sense of the word. I love my EV but I have never wished for less range. The Slate is a toy for the wealthy, like kitted up Jeeps that have snorkels

Giant pickups have silly sales because pickups in general have silly sales and there are basically zero non-giant options in the US market (thanks, Chicken Tax, very cool). The Slate would be the absolute perfect truck for me if it had a 4WD option. Being RWD-only is the only thing making me unwilling to replace my Tacoma with it.

How often do you off-road and need 4WD? I have a Jeep Wrangler, and in winter I have to go up a muddy hill with about a 15% grade to a back pasture at a stable. I sometimes engage 4WD (high) for that, but I don't really have to.

Very few of the giant pickups I see have mud on them.

Re: Mexican government unveils a prototype for a new homegrown, ultra-affordable EV

#185

Post by pjc50 »

robomartin wrote: post #173
jackb4040 wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US didn't go from #1 in global auto manufacturing to nearing extinction on accident. The companies shifted production abroad because they didn't want to pay for US labor. We can't just pray for "development" to spark a chain reaction that gets us back on track - we were the most developed and consciously chose to squander that advantage. Onshoring can be done, but it will have a real cost someone will have to bea…

> The companies shifted production abroad because they didn't want to pay for US labor. That's not true. Reality is far more nuanced than that. Sadly, it is the equivalent of a bunch of Dodo birds falling off a cliff. And this applies to every industry, not just automobiles. The simplified version goes something like this: Three companies manufacture forks and knives in the US. They share the market equally. Each has…

.. and the consumers get cheaper goods.

This debate is as old as Adam Smith, or older. I think the examples he used were centered around textiles? Everyone was afraid of the new job-destroying looms.

> This destroyed jobs by the millions. And here we are.

US unemployment has been about 5% for a while. If you look back on the graph: https://www.bls.gov/charts/employment-situation/civilian-une... , there are two big outliers. One is the business cycle disaster of 2008, which blew up the property market. One is COVID.

Unemployment is basically a managed number. It can't go too far below 4% before inflation kicks in, which everyone absolutely hates, so interest rates are raised to reduce investment and consumption and thereby increase unemployment and reduce wage pressure. All of this is orthodox economics.

Re: Mexican government unveils a prototype for a new homegrown, ultra-affordable EV

#186

Post by pjc50 »

coredog64 wrote: post #140
steveBK123 wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also US cars were genuinely horrendous in the 80s-90s in terms of build quality & reliability vs same price or cheaper Japanese equivalents. It's only rather recent that all the big name car makes from US/Europe/Japan/Korea are pretty good & reliable. There were huge differences 30-40 years ago.

I think there's a finer point here: US consumers don't want to pay for local UAW labor. GM&Toyota did fine out of the NUMMI plant, and companies like Nissan and Mercedes are making cars in Alabama.

Parallel to how the UK car industry local brands collapsed, but Nissan Sunderland has just kept going nicely.

Re: Mexican government unveils a prototype for a new homegrown, ultra-affordable EV

#187

Post by pjc50 »

GenerWork wrote: post #66
hmm37 wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The tariff route is what happened in the 1970s under the "chicken tax", which still exists today to protect the US light truck industry, and is pretty much the reason why SUVs reign supreme in the US market. SUVs are classified as "light trucks", which has caused a Galapagozation of the US car industry/market.

I see this take on SUVs all the time, and I can't help but think it's wrong. Americans just like bigger vehicles and will downsize if gas gets too expensive. There's a reason almost all electric car companies start off with a CUV/SUV/truck, and it's not because they're allergic to sedans or coupes.

The SUV branding is ridiculous. The Fiat 600 brands itself as "SUV" to appeal to this sector. It's basically a hatchback with a slightly elevated driving position. In a few years all cars will be called "SUV", and then sub-distinctions like "compact SUV" and "hatchback SUV" will be re-introduced.

Re: Mexican government unveils a prototype for a new homegrown, ultra-affordable EV

#188

Post by pjc50 »

gwbas1c wrote: post #3

> It remains to be seen whether the Olinia One will face similar pushback from the U.S. once it goes on sale. > can travel up to 125 kilometers (77 miles) on a single charge The US market generally rejects small-range EVs, except in very niche markets. In order to succeed in the US, it will need roughly 3-4x the range. In order for this to succeed in Mexico, their market will need different driving habits than the ty…

This car is explicitly intended as a taxi. If - and it's a big if - the taxi can charge while waiting for jobs, that's going to be fine.

Re: Mexican government unveils a prototype for a new homegrown, ultra-affordable EV

#189

Post by rsynnott »

gwbas1c wrote: post #3

> It remains to be seen whether the Olinia One will face similar pushback from the U.S. once it goes on sale. > can travel up to 125 kilometers (77 miles) on a single charge The US market generally rejects small-range EVs, except in very niche markets. In order to succeed in the US, it will need roughly 3-4x the range. In order for this to succeed in Mexico, their market will need different driving habits than the ty…

> The US market generally rejects small-range EVs, except in very niche markets. In order to succeed in the US, it will need roughly 3-4x the range

I mean, I assume it is not the case that literally all Americans regularly make long journeys. There probably is a market.

> I know this as a former 2014 Leaf lessee.

That was a lot more expensive than this.

The Dacia Spring has a range of a little less than twice these, and I see a good few of those around. Those cost about 15k EUR (17k USD). I'd definitely buy that there is at least _some_ market for something half the cost and half the range.

Re: Mexican government unveils a prototype for a new homegrown, ultra-affordable EV

#190

Post by rsynnott »

pjc50 wrote: post #188
gwbas1c wrote: post #3

> It remains to be seen whether the Olinia One will face similar pushback from the U.S. once it goes on sale. > can travel up to 125 kilometers (77 miles) on a single charge The US market generally rejects small-range EVs, except in very niche markets. In order to succeed in the US, it will need roughly 3-4x the range. In order for this to succeed in Mexico, their market will need different driving habits than the ty…

This car is explicitly intended as a taxi. If - and it's a big if - the taxi can charge while waiting for jobs, that's going to be fine.

Oh, huh, yeah, would have been helpful if the article mentioned that. Range is probably _fine_ in that case.
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