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Job application asked for my SAT scores

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Re: Job application asked for my SAT scores

#231

Post by buildsjets »

jedberg wrote: post #84
buildsjets wrote: post #40

You cannot use the SAT as a metric to compare different cohorts. SAT scoring has been revised many times over the years. When I took it the highest possible score was 1600. From 2004 through 2016 the highest score was 2400. Now it is back to 1600 again. Plus, both the content and the format of the exam has changed many times over the years. At times, there was no essay requirement, at times the essay was required, an…

The scores have changed, but ideally they are asking for the percentiles. Those are scaled to the current year.

Don’t make stuff up to defend this practice. The original poster only said the employer asked for the score, not the percentile.

Re: Job application asked for my SAT scores

#233

Post by WalterBright »

Maxatar wrote: post #204
WalterBright wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are never going to let you into a cockpit until you pass ground school, which involves a lot of math. > A teacher can be brilliant in the classroom yet stumble on a standardized certification exam full of pedagogical jargon. A teacher that cannot explain how calculus works cannot teach it to anybody. > a coding interview that relies on whiteboarding algorithms from memory can easily fail an excellent engineer wh…

This has to be a joke... Ground school most certainly does not involve a lot of math, it's not like there's any calculus or algebra involved... it's basic arithmetic. Furthermore it's categorically false that you need to pass ground school before you're allowed to fly. Are you just making things up? >A teacher that cannot explain how calculus works cannot teach it to anybody. This is a strawman argument, I never made…

> it's not like there's any calculus or algebra involved

There certainly is when you're navigating.

Some of the more advanced math is boiled down to specialized slide rules, though these days they'd use a computers.

For example, the fuel consumption rate vs range is not a linear relationship, because burning fuel lightens the airplane and so it can go faster/further.

Re: Job application asked for my SAT scores

#234

Post by Maxatar »

WalterBright wrote: post #214
Maxatar wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This has to be a joke... Ground school most certainly does not involve a lot of math, it's not like there's any calculus or algebra involved... it's basic arithmetic. Furthermore it's categorically false that you need to pass ground school before you're allowed to fly. Are you just making things up? >A teacher that cannot explain how calculus works cannot teach it to anybody. This is a strawman argument, I never made…

> categorically false Google sez: "The U.S. Air Force strictly requires you to complete and pass formal academic ground training before you ever touch the controls of an aircraft" They're not going to risk an aircraft on an incompetent student. > A teacher can be brilliant in the classroom yet stumble on a standardized certification exam full of pedagogical jargon I stand by my statement. > logical fallacy A implies…

So you are making things up... thanks for confirming that. While I appreciate that you reviewed what Google "sez"... you have misunderstood the relevant context which is that the U.S. Air Force also requires that you complete Initial Flight Training (IFT) before you start the Air Force's own formal training program (UPT). In IFT you will not be required to pass ground school before you get to fly.

Furthermore, even if the Air Force did not require IFT before UPT (the Air Force's own training program), you've completely changed the nature of your argument. I have no dispute about whether the Air Force may or may not have stricter requirements for their pilots, but that wasn't your argument.

>I stand by my statement.

You've proudly planted your flag on a point nobody was contesting, which is a strange hill to celebrate on but you do you.

>But that does not rule out B implies A. A and B can be strongly related to each other.

Discussing a topic with someone who not only uses logically fallacies as justification for their argument but brazenly doubles down on said fallacy is a good sign that this is probably not a good discussion to continue spending time on. Like am I supposed to simply accept your logical fallacy and take on the burden of disproving every claim you can dream up simply because you've asserted it isn't logically impossible? The person making the claim carries the burden of supporting it, and "they're strongly related" is something you have to actually show, not something I'm obligated to refute on your behalf.

Re: Job application asked for my SAT scores

#235

Post by annzabelle »

zugi wrote: post #229
falcor84 wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I personally strongly disagree. I think it's much better to be given the opportunity to do the actual work, rather than to be required to do the pre-assessment song and dance. And if there are actual prerequisites that a person hasn't previously passed, they should be allowed to be tested on these specifically.

It depends on a lot of things. If they've also applied to another college that's better suited to their ability, admitting then to a school where they'll likely fail is not really doing them a favor.

Agreed. I've seen some interesting data that kids who could've been successful premeds or engineers at their state flagship but instead eke their way into Harvard or Princeton (sports scholarship, legacy etc) will instead graduate with a flaky studies major because they couldn't cut it in their intended major and the switching costs of transferring were too high.

There are downsides if you end up a small fish in a big pond.

Re: Job application asked for my SAT scores

#236

Post by duxup »

> Edison also subjected candidates to the 'salt test'. He'd serve candidates soup, and if they salted it before tasting it, he'd allegedly disqualify them. His theory here was that this proved they operated on assumptions.

I really don’t want to eat soup in front of someone I’m interviewing with.

Re: Job application asked for my SAT scores

#237

Post by reaperducer »

margalabargala wrote: post #211
reaperducer wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are people who were forced to learn cursive smarter? By definition, people who know more things are smarter than people who know fewer things. That's just how it works. For centuries, people have striven to improve themselves through the acquisition of knowledge and skills. It is a quirk of recent generations that so many members take pride in their lack of knowledge. I'm repeatedly bewildered by my Millennial collea…

I may be able to help with that bewilderment. Imagine, you have two people. Person A knows cursive, person B does not. Person B knows the ins and outs of Newtonian physics, person A does not. Which person is smarter? Which person would the cursive test say is smarter? What you seem to have mistook for people not knowing things without shame, is people valuing knowledge not by the preponderance of its quantity but by…

The person who knows cursive can go on to learn Newtonian physics. Now he knows two things. While your supposed hero still only knows one.

Re: Job application asked for my SAT scores

#238

Post by BobbyJo »

Maxatar wrote: post #157
WalterBright wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I always enjoy the advocates who claim that students have mastered their subjects, but "don't test well". Would you want a pilot on your flight who flunked flying school exams, but somehow "really knew how to fly!"?

Not really comparable... the overwhelming majority of flight tests involve flying an aircraft. There is no meaningful way someone can be excellent at flying an aircraft but can't pass a test which involves flying an aircraft. The same can't be said for many other tests. If the test involves the practical application of the very skill being tested, then that test has direct relevance to he competency of said skill. Bu…

The overwhelming majority of math tests involve doing math, so I'm not sure your critique is useful in this context.

Re: Job application asked for my SAT scores

#239

Post by infamouscow »

apparent wrote: post #116
infamouscow wrote: post #95

If it's been 10+ years and an employer wants your SAT scores, 1600 is as good an answer as any. Anyone asking for that data point doesn't actually care about the accuracy, they just want to see if you'll compliantly jump through a pointless hoop. (Save the "but that's fraud!" replies. It's not material to the job, so it isn't).

That cost-benefit analysis makes no sense if you had a pretty good scores. What's the point in fudging a few extra points if it means that diligence reveals you to be a liar? It would also be somewhat suspicious if you went to a so-so college but allegedly had a perfect SAT. It would only make sense to lie if your score was well under 1600, you went to a college that makes sense for someone with a perfect SAT, and yo…

In service to the point, if you're _really_ smart—like definitely going to grad school smart—you apply to universities with the best faculty for your intended area of study. Often that is a sole professor at a university you've never heard of, but the researchers in that area of study regard as a top school.

Re: Job application asked for my SAT scores

#240

Post by subtextminer »

stephenbez wrote: post #152
eikenberry wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is a lossy testing filter better than just failing out those who can't make it? Maybe allow for larger freshmen classes and smaller latter classes or adopt community colleges and have all students start there and advance into the UC system sophomore year on. Instead they bring back what is basically an IQ test for admission.

High graduation rates are an important metric to administrators. If a professor gave a failing grade to 1/3 of the class they would be in hot water.

1/3 isn't that bad in the late 80s/early 90s at the UT Austin CS department. Only ~30% graduated at the time. The orientation was literally "look to your left and looked to your right only one of you will graduate." They weren't joking!
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