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Japanese symbols that speak without words

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Re: Japanese symbols that speak without words

#31

Post by freetime2 »

robocat wrote: post #2

The common theme for the discussed symbols is consideration for others. In New Zealand we require a yellow [L] sign on cars with learner drivers (with learners drivers licenses). However I get the impression that other drivers are less considerate around a car displaying the [L] sign. I suspect New Zealanders are generally far less considerate than Japanese. Politeness avoids a trillion sharp edges. We also seem to b…

> However I get the impression that other drivers are less considerate around a car displaying the [L] sign.

On a related theme - I have found when driving in the North Eastern US, when people put on their turn signal, other drivers will often speed up and close the gap rather than giving them space to merge.

Re: Japanese symbols that speak without words

#32

Post by dcrazy »

robocat wrote: post #2

The common theme for the discussed symbols is consideration for others. In New Zealand we require a yellow [L] sign on cars with learner drivers (with learners drivers licenses). However I get the impression that other drivers are less considerate around a car displaying the [L] sign. I suspect New Zealanders are generally far less considerate than Japanese. Politeness avoids a trillion sharp edges. We also seem to b…

There has been an explosion of “student driver” stickers here in the SF Bay Area. It’s completely voluntary, and most the vehicles appear to be driven by people in their 30s.

Re: Japanese symbols that speak without words

#33

Post by dcrazy »

1-6 wrote: post #19

I don't see anything particularly special about these symbols. Don't get me wrong, I like Japan but while these icons look nice, don't most symbols already speak without words?

I always find it interesting to learn about symbols or iconography that a culture takes for granted that would be unknown or even invisible to an outsider.

Japanese heraldry is particularly captivating because of its apparent influence on corporate logo design of the 1960s. Between mon and traditional Japanese architecture, it’s eye-opening to see parallels between post-war American modernism and millennia of Japanese design.

In the spirit of this article, Cabel Sasser [1] once jokingly referred to U+1F4DB as “tofu on fire,” but eventually learned it is universally understood by Japanese people as a child’s school name tag.

[1]: https://bsky.app/profile/cabel.panic.com/post/3lxusfd6f5k2c

For a non-Japanese example, it wasn’t until I visited Europe that the “fleeing man” universally used for exit signage over there would have meant anything to me. You can drop that icon into something and immediately convey danger, flight to safety, etc.

Re: Japanese symbols that speak without words

#34

Post by hunter2_ »

freetime2 wrote: post #31
robocat wrote: post #2

The common theme for the discussed symbols is consideration for others. In New Zealand we require a yellow [L] sign on cars with learner drivers (with learners drivers licenses). However I get the impression that other drivers are less considerate around a car displaying the [L] sign. I suspect New Zealanders are generally far less considerate than Japanese. Politeness avoids a trillion sharp edges. We also seem to b…

> However I get the impression that other drivers are less considerate around a car displaying the [L] sign. On a related theme - I have found when driving in the North Eastern US, when people put on their turn signal, other drivers will often speed up and close the gap rather than giving them space to merge.

As a northeasterner, I can explain:

In some other places, a turn signal before a lane change is an ask, to which others respond by creating more of a gap than there originally was. Here, it's not an ask but a statement that you've got enough of a gap already so you're going for it. As such, others don't find a need to react at all, which could mean the gap continues shrinking if it was already shrinking prior.

The signaler needs to have anticipated it and not signaled until this problem doesn't exist, in fact it's scary when someone signals despite this problem because the other driver is led to believe they're unseen. When there's already a lot of momentum toward closing the gap, continuing to do so is a more fuel-efficient way out of the blind spot than using the brake pedal.

Aside: turn signals that automatically flash 3 times with no reasonable way to cancel the remaining flashes when you discover a need to abort a lane change exacerbates the aforementioned scare, so I recommend disabling it.

Re: Japanese symbols that speak without words

#35

Post by parl_match »

dcrazy wrote: post #33
1-6 wrote: post #19

I don't see anything particularly special about these symbols. Don't get me wrong, I like Japan but while these icons look nice, don't most symbols already speak without words?

I always find it interesting to learn about symbols or iconography that a culture takes for granted that would be unknown or even invisible to an outsider. Japanese heraldry is particularly captivating because of its apparent influence on corporate logo design of the 1960s. Between mon and traditional Japanese architecture, it’s eye-opening to see parallels between post-war American modernism and millennia of Japanes…

You might find the history of "American Traditional" tattooing interesting, as well.

Re: Japanese symbols that speak without words

#36

Post by bitwize »

1-6 wrote: post #19

I don't see anything particularly special about these symbols. Don't get me wrong, I like Japan but while these icons look nice, don't most symbols already speak without words?

They are interesting for a variety of reasons. One of which is, while some are similar in function to, say, the "handicapped tag" that gets you pick of the best parking spaces in the United States, they are mainly enforced through social convention rather than law. This gives the symbols greater reach than laws, encouraging helpful behavior that can't be effectively legislated. Because Japanese culture is based on social harmony and mutual respect for norms, they're actually effective.

Secondly, because they are enforced by social convention, they can be very abstract which helps to reduce stigma. The aforementioned handicapped sign is clearly an abstract silhouette of a person in a wheelchair, which is very, very on the nose compared to a butterfly, clover, or heart. Similarly, the bicolor chevron indicating "new driver" (which I first encountered as a roll-up item in the Katamari Damacy series) is a whole lot less obtrusive than the "dunce cap" worn by driver-education vehicles in the USA (typically, a large sign or signs reading "STUDENT DRIVER" or similar mounted on the roof of the car). American drivers would prickle at having to have something like the "dunce cap" on their vehicles for a year after getting their license, but if it were an obvious but unobtrusive and abstract symbol like the chevron, public support for requiring the symbol on the vehicles of even newly licensed drivers (probably a good idea) would increase.

Re: Japanese symbols that speak without words

#37

Post by jagged-chisel »

dcrazy wrote: post #32
robocat wrote: post #2

The common theme for the discussed symbols is consideration for others. In New Zealand we require a yellow [L] sign on cars with learner drivers (with learners drivers licenses). However I get the impression that other drivers are less considerate around a car displaying the [L] sign. I suspect New Zealanders are generally far less considerate than Japanese. Politeness avoids a trillion sharp edges. We also seem to b…

There has been an explosion of “student driver” stickers here in the SF Bay Area. It’s completely voluntary, and most the vehicles appear to be driven by people in their 30s.

My son waited later to get his learning permit. I’ve met folks living it cities who never got driving licenses because there was no need. Could indeed be new drivers in their 30s.

Near me, it appears to be a decal parents are adding for the benefit of their high schoolers becoming new drivers.

Re: Japanese symbols that speak without words

#38

Post by mitthrowaway2 »

1-6 wrote: post #19

I don't see anything particularly special about these symbols. Don't get me wrong, I like Japan but while these icons look nice, don't most symbols already speak without words?

Due to a favorable exchange rate a lot of people are traveling to Japan these days, and encountering these unfamiliar symbols for the first time and perhaps wondered what they mean.

Re: Japanese symbols that speak without words

#39

Post by bitwize »

CHUNK_CHUNK wrote: post #21

One thing I'd add: the "kuuki wo yomu" concept extends beyond symbols into everyday social cues too. A classic example is the "genkan" (entryway) — the slight step-up from outdoor to indoor floor level silently tells you where to remove your shoes, no sign needed. The whole house layout enforces the unspoken rule. Train station melody chimes are another great example — they differ by station and line, so locals uncon…

If you hear a Japanese person yell "K.Y.! K.Y.!" you'd better blush, and not because they're referring to a fun-times lubricant. It stands for "kūki yomenai", literally "cannot read the atmosphere". Kind of like "Hey, read the room, asshole!"

Re: Japanese symbols that speak without words

#40

Post by comradesmith »

IndySun wrote: post #17
comradesmith wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t understand your comment. Can you spell it out for me?

The article is decent, but the headline is saying something demonstrably false - evidenced by the article itself. Not one of the symbols can possibly be understood as to its intended meaning without learning what the symbol represents - that is to say, simply by looking at any of them in no way whatsoever suggests, hints, or shows their meaning in the appropriate context.

The fact you’ve got to learn them doesn’t negate the statement that they communicate without words.

All language has to be learned

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