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Mexican government unveils a prototype for a new homegrown, ultra-affordable EV

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Re: Mexican government unveils a prototype for a new homegrown, ultra-affordable EV

#161

Post by mc3301 »

HWR_14 wrote: post #139
pragma_x wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There may be another option. Consider Japan's Kei car initiative, for example. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kei_car#Description https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kei_car#Taxation_and_insurance One route is to provide incentives, if not regulations, to force innovation on US automakers. The goal would be to yield products that are head-to-head competitive with imports. > It seems to me though that the current strategy se…

The main difference between a car like this and a kei car is the ability to drive it, at least for a short while, on the expressway. If this could go a couple miles at 45 or 50 mph that would work in lot more situations where two neighborhoods or urban areas are connected by a short stretch of highway.

Kei cars can comfortably go up to about 60mph. Not great for an 8 hour drive, but I regularly do 3-hour-drives with a loaded kei-van. Yep, same 660cc three-cylinder engine that those kei-trucks have. It'll hit 70mph, but not comfortably. 50mph is easy.

And on the highway, I see tons of other kei cars, too. Light weight class cars even get a toll discount!

Re: Mexican government unveils a prototype for a new homegrown, ultra-affordable EV

#162

Post by cucumber3732842 »

scythe wrote: post #70
bruce511 wrote: post #15

The Ford CEO is not wrong. Allowing foreign imports into the country at prices far below what US producers are able to make will decimate the local car industry in the US. There are 4 possible solutions to this problem; a) convince Americans that it's worth paying more for a locally built product. This is the simplest approach, but there's only so much margin here that the consumer will tolerate. At the moment this g…

None of these strategies seem to address the other technological issue hiding beneath the surface, which is that EVs are fundamentally simpler (electric vs combustion motor) and hence should be cheaper than ICE cars when manufacturing pipelines are mature. This would result in lower profits across the car industry even in the absence of international competition. No US manufacturer so far has actually tried to build…

The "secret sauce" of being an OEM is integrating a good set of properties that sells at a price point that sells.

Yeah, they have a lot of $$ historically invested in good engines but they don't care that much. They'll buy engines from each other whenever they want. They don't see it as a critical moat.

Re: Mexican government unveils a prototype for a new homegrown, ultra-affordable EV

#163

Post by tzs »

yibg wrote: post #97
bruce511 wrote: post #15

The Ford CEO is not wrong. Allowing foreign imports into the country at prices far below what US producers are able to make will decimate the local car industry in the US. There are 4 possible solutions to this problem; a) convince Americans that it's worth paying more for a locally built product. This is the simplest approach, but there's only so much margin here that the consumer will tolerate. At the moment this g…

Isn’t there a e) have investment at the federal level in R&D, specifically for industries that matter (economy, national security etc)? For automotive, China didn’t become the EV leader by accident. It was a deliberate national strategy, with funding to back it up. Yes there is cheaper labor, different regulations etc. But also in no small part to federal funding, investment in R&D etc. why are we surprised then that…

> The US could invest more in battery tech, manufacturing automation, robotics etc

The US is investing in batteries. Domestic production has increased rapidly over the last couple of years and is continuing to do so. The US can now produce domestically all of its battery needs for grid storage, for example.

This is due to government incentives from the Inflation Reduction Act.

Re: Mexican government unveils a prototype for a new homegrown, ultra-affordable EV

#164

Post by bayarearefugee »

toast0 wrote: post #90
01100011 wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is decimating our local car industry a problem? Why not build something else with the resources if cars are now a cheap commodity?

Our local car industry is tightly related to our local military vehicle industry. Should we get into a big war, we'll likely need mass production of military vehicles and having mass production of consumer vehicles is a good start.

> Should we get into a big war, we'll likely need mass production of military vehicles and having mass production of consumer vehicles is a good start.

And all those military vehicles we build will be destroyed by tiny fpv drones that cost a tiny percent of what the vehicles cost.

Why do people cling to this WW II era idea that we need car factories in case we go to war?

Re: Mexican government unveils a prototype for a new homegrown, ultra-affordable EV

#165

Post by toast0 »

bayarearefugee wrote: post #164
toast0 wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Our local car industry is tightly related to our local military vehicle industry. Should we get into a big war, we'll likely need mass production of military vehicles and having mass production of consumer vehicles is a good start.

> Should we get into a big war, we'll likely need mass production of military vehicles and having mass production of consumer vehicles is a good start. And all those military vehicles we build will be destroyed by tiny fpv drones that cost a tiny percent of what the vehicles cost. Why do people cling to this WW II era idea that we need car factories in case we go to war?

Gotta move infantry some how. If they're being destroyed all the time, gotta build new stuff.

Last world war, a lot of the mass production facilities got pushed into building munitions too. Harder to do that without manufacturing facilities.

Re: Mexican government unveils a prototype for a new homegrown, ultra-affordable EV

#166

Post by steveBK123 »

coredog64 wrote: post #140
steveBK123 wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also US cars were genuinely horrendous in the 80s-90s in terms of build quality & reliability vs same price or cheaper Japanese equivalents. It's only rather recent that all the big name car makes from US/Europe/Japan/Korea are pretty good & reliable. There were huge differences 30-40 years ago.

I think there's a finer point here: US consumers don't want to pay for local UAW labor. GM&Toyota did fine out of the NUMMI plant, and companies like Nissan and Mercedes are making cars in Alabama.

The problem wasn't assembly alone, the designers carry much blame as well in that era.

Re: Mexican government unveils a prototype for a new homegrown, ultra-affordable EV

#167

Post by budman1 »

bayarearefugee wrote: post #164
toast0 wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Our local car industry is tightly related to our local military vehicle industry. Should we get into a big war, we'll likely need mass production of military vehicles and having mass production of consumer vehicles is a good start.

> Should we get into a big war, we'll likely need mass production of military vehicles and having mass production of consumer vehicles is a good start. And all those military vehicles we build will be destroyed by tiny fpv drones that cost a tiny percent of what the vehicles cost. Why do people cling to this WW II era idea that we need car factories in case we go to war?

Those tiny fpv drones pack a tiny punch. Sure, it will destroy a current generation Chevy Equinox. But two weeks after the war starts, countermeasures will be created. The vehicles will be changed to make them harder to find, and harder to kill. A small drone will be rendered ineffective by small countermeasures. As much as I dislike the current US administration, Ford moving to making missiles and other military hardware is a good idea. They sure can't build a cost effective vehicle; yet there is a lot more potential profit in a Standard Missile, not to mention less competition.

Re: Mexican government unveils a prototype for a new homegrown, ultra-affordable EV

#168

Post by stackedinserter »

budman1 wrote: post #167
bayarearefugee wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Should we get into a big war, we'll likely need mass production of military vehicles and having mass production of consumer vehicles is a good start. And all those military vehicles we build will be destroyed by tiny fpv drones that cost a tiny percent of what the vehicles cost. Why do people cling to this WW II era idea that we need car factories in case we go to war?

Those tiny fpv drones pack a tiny punch. Sure, it will destroy a current generation Chevy Equinox. But two weeks after the war starts, countermeasures will be created. The vehicles will be changed to make them harder to find, and harder to kill. A small drone will be rendered ineffective by small countermeasures. As much as I dislike the current US administration, Ford moving to making missiles and other military har…

> But two weeks after the war starts, countermeasures will be created. The vehicles will be changed to make them harder to find, and harder to kill. A small drone will be rendered ineffective by small countermeasures

Where did you get this?

Nobody solved FPV's in four years, why do you think US or any other country will solve it in two weeks?

"small drone will be rendered ineffective by small countermeasures" – only a person that lives under a rock and doesn't follow RU-UA war in any way can say such things.

Re: Mexican government unveils a prototype for a new homegrown, ultra-affordable EV

#169

Post by stackedinserter »

bayarearefugee wrote: post #164
toast0 wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Our local car industry is tightly related to our local military vehicle industry. Should we get into a big war, we'll likely need mass production of military vehicles and having mass production of consumer vehicles is a good start.

> Should we get into a big war, we'll likely need mass production of military vehicles and having mass production of consumer vehicles is a good start. And all those military vehicles we build will be destroyed by tiny fpv drones that cost a tiny percent of what the vehicles cost. Why do people cling to this WW II era idea that we need car factories in case we go to war?

It's truly shocking that westerners still believe in fancy military megafauna.

Re: Mexican government unveils a prototype for a new homegrown, ultra-affordable EV

#170

Post by travisb »

toast0 wrote: post #96
1234letshaveatw wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are we just ignoring data now? Giant pickups have silly sales- silly in the crazy high sense of the word. I love my EV but I have never wished for less range. The Slate is a toy for the wealthy, like kitted up Jeeps that have snorkels

If it shows up in the suggested price range, it's going to one of the least expensive new vehicles on the market. Yes, it has less utility than many other vehicles in many ways, but the bed length (5 ft) is longer than a lot of trucks I see on the road which enables carrying certain kinds of loads that aren't easy in cars or trucks with very short beds as seems fashionable now. 150 miles isn't a ton of range, but it'…

Bed length is a silly metric to use. It's single dimensional and doesn't capture any of the other important metrics. Such as width, air-volume, cubed-volume, or weight capacity.

Slate's 5 foot bed is on the shorter end of common bed sizes. Certainly shorter and worse on every other metric than the F-150/Silverado/1500 'short bed' so commonly seen hauling air in the US.

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