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Nearly half of LG smart TV apps contain residential proxy SDKs

spur.us

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Re: Nearly half of LG smart TV apps contain residential proxy SDKs

#31
post #18
post #7

This needs to be illegal.

Why? The only thing that's vaguely objectionable is the fact the consent screen's wording of "download public web data from the internet" omits important information on what's actually happening and the associated risks. Otherwise I'm not sure how you can come up with a principled justification of the ban beyond just "AI scrapers bad" or "hiding identity". Tor relays and VPNs are basically doing the same thing, excep…

This is why I don't run a tor endpoint; possibly objectionable traffic I don't control sourced from my network. All it takes is one horrible request to come from your IP and you're on a list

Re: Nearly half of LG smart TV apps contain residential proxy SDKs

#32
post #21

Walked past a TV and it was advertising a security guard. Why does a TV need security software?

Because most people (HN is not a representative sample set) are not willing to pay the real price of a TV if it wouldn't be subsidized by adtech.

It's been a very long time since they were given an option.

Re: Nearly half of LG smart TV apps contain residential proxy SDKs

#33

It's not Smart TV apps specifically, it's all free apps. They have to monetize those somehow, don't they? And you get upset when you see ads, don't you? Basically it's either this or pay for your apps.

> Basically it's either this or pay for your apps.

And then paid apps show you ads and monetize anyway.

Re: Nearly half of LG smart TV apps contain residential proxy SDKs

#35
post #18
post #7

This needs to be illegal.

Why? The only thing that's vaguely objectionable is the fact the consent screen's wording of "download public web data from the internet" omits important information on what's actually happening and the associated risks. Otherwise I'm not sure how you can come up with a principled justification of the ban beyond just "AI scrapers bad" or "hiding identity". Tor relays and VPNs are basically doing the same thing, excep…

From the content hosting side (getting reamed by scrapers overloading infrastructure), the problem is that we have to be able to set "reasonable" ratelimits to share finite network uplink and server cpu resources between all of our real users and these scrapers.

When you can identify the nature of the traffic (quickly in realtime, based on simple deterministic rules), you can protect the resources: you can rate/concurrency -limit the AI scrapers in the name of saving resources for the real humans, effectively putting the scrapers in a lower priority band (which is how it generally worked for search engine scrapers before!).

The problem is they're using resiproxies to disperse and whitewash their traffic, making it extremely difficult to tell their requests apart from the legitimate human requests. They're basically lying to us about the origin, and thus denying us the ability to put them in a lower priority band than humans.

They may scrape us at, say, 25K reqs/second, but it's coming from 50K random residential eyeball IPs at an average rate of only 0.5 reqs/second/IP, and then they're intentionally lying with the UA and headers and other fingerprint details as best they can to "blend in" with the humans so that we can't differentiate.

Let's do an analogy: Imagine if there was a neighborhood grocery store you and all your neighbors rely on for food. It's cheap because they keep their margins low, and more importantly the next store down the road is like 50 miles further away. That store 50 miles down the road also charges double the price. Now they've decided to play arbitrage: they load up 100 employees in the back of an air conditioned semi, clothe them to look like local shoppers, park it 3 blocks from your neighborhood store hidden inside a fenced property, and have them all go in and buy out all the inventory in the store over the course of a couple hours. The store just looks like it's having a great sales day at first. All these customers waiting in line, each getting just a few things at a time. But two hours later, the store shelves are empty, the semi is loaded up, and they're headed 50 miles back to double the price and sell it to someone else. You go in to buy some veggies to cook dinner and there's nothing to buy.

We've been playing this game with AI scrapers and resiproxies for way too long, and someone needs to hold them accountable for their fraud.

Re: Nearly half of LG smart TV apps contain residential proxy SDKs

#37
post #10
post #9

I think it’s worth emphasizing that based on the article, those are third party apps, not first party LG apps. Based on the headline I thought it’s the built-in apps.

This does raise the question if other Smart TVs with the same third party apps have the same issue.

The LG WebOS Store is a different beast.

Just browsing the list of apps raises eyebrows for even the most non-tech audiences. 99% of it is spam, with maybe 1% being well known apps like YouTube.

The rest are weird IPTV Players, Wallpaper apps. It feels like a portal into 2009 apps, but its not.

Re: Nearly half of LG smart TV apps contain residential proxy SDKs

#38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, this does seem somewhat reasonable. I get that most users will probably accept it without thinking twice, but if you’re going to do something like this, this is at least a fairly upfront and consenting way of doing it. For the TV platforms where this isn’t allowed, you have to wonder if apps are still doing it but just completely secretly, and trying to hide their tracks as well.

I think the person you were responding to was being sarcastic.

I didn't read it that way. "Please allow us to use your IP to download data" is way more consenty than I thought these apps would get.

Re: Nearly half of LG smart TV apps contain residential proxy SDKs

#39

It's not Smart TV apps specifically, it's all free apps. They have to monetize those somehow, don't they? And you get upset when you see ads, don't you? Basically it's either this or pay for your apps.

Not sure if this is ironic, but I know it's possible for apps to exist without being monetized. I'm using Paint.net right now.

To parody the Arthur quote [1]

Do you really think somebody would do that? Just go write apps for the love of programming and not to make money?

[1] https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRGIV3u...

Re: Nearly half of LG smart TV apps contain residential proxy SDKs

#40
post #10
post #9

I think it’s worth emphasizing that based on the article, those are third party apps, not first party LG apps. Based on the headline I thought it’s the built-in apps.

This does raise the question if other Smart TVs with the same third party apps have the same issue.

Vizio was caught taking screen grabs and sending them to a server a few years ago.
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