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NSF slashes research programs to support new tech initiative, insiders say

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Re: NSF slashes research programs to support new tech initiative, insiders say

#41

Post by searine »

tlb wrote: post #21

15 years ago you could argue that venture capital wasn't funding enough advanced tech, so ideas were failing to cross the gap from pure research to commercial development. But lately there's capital available for quantum computers, fusion, synthetic bio, space exploration, asteroid mining, and lots more. The government is going to suck at funding the right things. They should leave tech transfer to private investors,…

>The government is going to suck at funding the right things.

The government is actually really really good at funding the right things. The grant process has been extremely successful in directing funding efficiently towards cutting edge ideas. It does this by handing off the decision making to experts who review proposals rather than having political/profit driven kingmakers.

In contrast corporate/VC money mostly only funds the latest shiny bauble that may result in exit liquidity in a few years. The minority investments in things like fusion are still only applied work and are built on decades of unprofitable basic science.

In other words. Government funding has basically funded every science/tech breakthrough of the last 80 years.

Re: NSF slashes research programs to support new tech initiative, insiders say

#43

Post by pfortuny »

downrightmike wrote: post #22
tlb wrote: post #21

15 years ago you could argue that venture capital wasn't funding enough advanced tech, so ideas were failing to cross the gap from pure research to commercial development. But lately there's capital available for quantum computers, fusion, synthetic bio, space exploration, asteroid mining, and lots more. The government is going to suck at funding the right things. They should leave tech transfer to private investors,…

Tax payers fund the research, they should get a cut of whatever company uses that research.

That is in part why corporate taxes exist.

Re: NSF slashes research programs to support new tech initiative, insiders say

#44

Post by ianm218 »

Ar-Curunir wrote: post #36
ianm218 wrote: post #23

> By levying such a large tax on its other programs, the agency appears to be defying a congressional directive in the final FY 2026 appropriations bill that “No [NSF] directorate shall receive more than a 5 percent reduction relative to the fiscal year 2024 enacted level.” That language was meant to address fears by the research community and some legislators that NSF, if its overall budget remained flat, might deci…

This is not a positive change. Applied research that makes profits is for industry. Industry will never fund curiosity-driven research in any amount, so the government needs to do it. Redirecting government funding for a function already served by industry is stupid and just another vehicle for corruption.

> Created in 2022, TIP’s mission is to address the decades-old complaint that the agency, traditionally focused on curiosity-driven research with no obvious commercial value, needs to do more to make sure scientific discoveries eventually benefit society—in new jobs and products, improved health care, or a rising standard of living.

This seems like a decent initiative started under Biden’s pro technology/ industrial policy umbrella. It was launched as part of the hugely successful CHIPS act.

Your critique is a false dichotomy. There is a large spectrum between “purely curiosity driven research” and “research that has near term venture outcomes” where applied research lives. Something like the Bell Lans semi conductor and related research would fit into this. Not immediately venture scale focused research, but could lead to it.

Just because Trump is repurposing it for illegal grift doesn’t mean it’s a bad group to put resources into in general.

Re: NSF slashes research programs to support new tech initiative, insiders say

#45

Post by malfist »

SoftTalker wrote: post #33
tlb wrote: post #21

15 years ago you could argue that venture capital wasn't funding enough advanced tech, so ideas were failing to cross the gap from pure research to commercial development. But lately there's capital available for quantum computers, fusion, synthetic bio, space exploration, asteroid mining, and lots more. The government is going to suck at funding the right things. They should leave tech transfer to private investors,…

> quantum computers, fusion, synthetic bio, space exploration, asteroid mining Poster children for tech with no realistic commercial prospects. Projects in these fields have been pipe dreams for decades. Where are any commercial products in the areas of fusion reactors? Quantum computers? Asteroid mining operations? If private investors want to fund this stuff, fine. As long as they don't come seeking bailouts later.

Not only that, but fusion itself is absolutely not what a tech venture capitalist wants to fund. The research horizon for fusion power is in the multiple decades. You're never going to find an investor that says "Yeah, I'll give you enough money to build a fusion reactor and do research for 20+ years in the hopes that you get something workable"

Fusion is literally still in the pure science stage that OP was telling governments to stick too.

Re: NSF slashes research programs to support new tech initiative, insiders say

#46

Post by malfist »

pfortuny wrote: post #43
downrightmike wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tax payers fund the research, they should get a cut of whatever company uses that research.

That is in part why corporate taxes exist.

Sure they exist. But there's so many write offs and loop holes it doesn't really matter.

Re: NSF slashes research programs to support new tech initiative, insiders say

#47

Post by lowercased »

searine wrote: post #41
tlb wrote: post #21

15 years ago you could argue that venture capital wasn't funding enough advanced tech, so ideas were failing to cross the gap from pure research to commercial development. But lately there's capital available for quantum computers, fusion, synthetic bio, space exploration, asteroid mining, and lots more. The government is going to suck at funding the right things. They should leave tech transfer to private investors,…

>The government is going to suck at funding the right things. The government is actually really really good at funding the right things. The grant process has been extremely successful in directing funding efficiently towards cutting edge ideas. It does this by handing off the decision making to experts who review proposals rather than having political/profit driven kingmakers. In contrast corporate/VC money mostly o…

Spot on.

Re: NSF slashes research programs to support new tech initiative, insiders say

#48

Post by derbOac »

downrightmike wrote: post #22
tlb wrote: post #21

15 years ago you could argue that venture capital wasn't funding enough advanced tech, so ideas were failing to cross the gap from pure research to commercial development. But lately there's capital available for quantum computers, fusion, synthetic bio, space exploration, asteroid mining, and lots more. The government is going to suck at funding the right things. They should leave tech transfer to private investors,…

Tax payers fund the research, they should get a cut of whatever company uses that research.

Agreed. Imagine an IPO where you put in money and then get no returns. Who would invest?

Re: NSF slashes research programs to support new tech initiative, insiders say

#49

Post by TimorousBestie »

adastra22 wrote: post #38
TimorousBestie wrote: post #2

More or less a handout to the tech industry. This is just the STTR program with even less oversight and a questionable funding source. Curious what the plan is when the academic pipeline for training researchers collapses entirely. AI all the things?

That seems like typical establishment / reactionary push-back. NSF is spinning up Focused Research Organizations, which are very effective ways of getting basic research done that wouldn't otherwise be funded, and to do so in a way that allows for commercial spin-offs. That's not a handout.

The whole point of an FRO is to have less oversight than a traditional government grant or contract.

Re: NSF slashes research programs to support new tech initiative, insiders say

#50

Post by magicalist »

SoftTalker wrote: post #35
TimorousBestie wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, this is all well-attested. It’s so weird. Presumably the conservatives still want the US to be a superpower, which presumably includes high-tech capabilities like global power projection, missile defense, and persistent space operations. At the same time they seemingly want a Cultural Revolution-like decimation of intellectuals. I don’t see how they believe they can attain both objectives at once.

There's at least a subset of them who do not. They want isolationism. Almost a juche sort of mentality. Stop propping up Europe/NATO. "No more foreign wars" was their rallying point. The Iran war really brought them to the surface, a lot of them were very unhappy with the Trump administration about that.

> The Iran war really brought them to the surface, a lot of them were very unhappy with the Trump administration about that.

So, like...Thomas Massie and Rand Paul?

There were only four republicans in the House and four in the Senate to vote to limit war powers, and I don't think you could claim Murkowski or Collins are isolationists.

Or did you mean this subset was "very unhappy" in like a completely impotent and meaningless way, but they'll have been 100% against it six months or 2.5 or 4.5 years from now?

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