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Never Give Them Your Face

nevergivethemyourface.com

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Re: Never Give Them Your Face

#161

Post by inigyou »

Nevermark wrote: post #59
inigyou wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can just lie by using someone else's ZKP. If that's not considered to be a problem, then the California approach of just asking the device owner is much better and you still don't need the ZKP.

I am fine with device vouched sessions. That protect my and my devices' identities. > You can just lie by using someone else's ZKP. Yes, it is trivial to share access/identity, purposely or carelessly. Not sure what point you are making, since that isn't specific to ZKP.

If it's not ZK you can get arrested for sharing it

Re: Never Give Them Your Face

#162

Post by cortesoft »

munk-a wrote: post #64
harel wrote: post #44

It ends with "The platforms need you far more than you need them". And I think this is the misconception. No, they don't. The amount of people who will sign this, is a fraction of a fraction of a "platform"'s users. They will not care if they lose 50,000 users out of 2 Billion. A drop in the ocean. Not the target audience anyway. And that is the real shame. Because I don't want to have to give my face or do age verif…

You are correct that your data isn't particularly impactful for these platforms - but you're also overestimating the value that many of these services have. A fair few of them have competitors with better features and privacy offerings so the only reason you need them is purely for the network effect of everyone else using them.

Just because the network effect is why you need them doesn’t make that need go away.

Re: Never Give Them Your Face

#163

Post by baq »

wwweston wrote: post #114
munk-a wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are correct that your data isn't particularly impactful for these platforms - but you're also overestimating the value that many of these services have. A fair few of them have competitors with better features and privacy offerings so the only reason you need them is purely for the network effect of everyone else using them.

And increasingly, everyone isn’t using them, even if they’re on them. I’m on Insta and WhatsApp and I use them a few times per year. I’m on Messenger and have seen a dramatic dropoff in messages. I’m on FB frequently and notice only a small fraction of my friends bother anymore and it’s become an interest platform to make up the lack, so I’m trending toward less time there. I’m on Twitter/X but check in maybe once a…

I visit my facebook once a year and always regret it

Re: Never Give Them Your Face

#164

Post by cortesoft »

ekall wrote: post #81
harel wrote: post #44

It ends with "The platforms need you far more than you need them". And I think this is the misconception. No, they don't. The amount of people who will sign this, is a fraction of a fraction of a "platform"'s users. They will not care if they lose 50,000 users out of 2 Billion. A drop in the ocean. Not the target audience anyway. And that is the real shame. Because I don't want to have to give my face or do age verif…

I think this kind of comment where you share the sentiment that you will ultimately admit defeat emboldens the factions that are hoping for people to be like you. I also think these kinds of comments may also bring doubt to people considering resisting these kinds of concessions. In other words I think the people pushing these kinds of "identification" methods would love you for spreading their silent message of this…

They won’t be emboldened by this comment, they will be emboldened when their internal data shows they aren’t losing users at a rate high enough to change their behavior.

Re: Never Give Them Your Face

#166

Post by Nevermark »

inigyou wrote: post #161
Nevermark wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am fine with device vouched sessions. That protect my and my devices' identities. > You can just lie by using someone else's ZKP. Yes, it is trivial to share access/identity, purposely or carelessly. Not sure what point you are making, since that isn't specific to ZKP.

If it's not ZK you can get arrested for sharing it

I assume you mean more likely arrested? Since legal liability would be the same.

Logs of identity vs. access history being useful for investigating sharing? What kind of logs does California State keep?

Re: Never Give Them Your Face

#167

Post by jupr »

judge2020 wrote: post #144
jupr wrote: post #23

Im sure a lot of people know about tor on this site...but let me remind everyone. Tor is not for criminals. It's for you and me. And happens to be good enough that criminals use it too. This is the two sided nature of technology. Tor is a networks of peers across the globe volunteering their network bandwidth to support people under oppression by their government. The amount of privacy that can be gained from tor is…

iCloud private relay has done more in just a few years than Tor ever has, by being opt-out for iOS users instead of opt-in like Tor. Now platforms can’t rely on IP based reputation, instead relying on either a computational challenge (Cloudflare, Anubis) or de-anonymization (recaptcha relying on being signed into a Google account more than anything, especially when using private relay).

That wasn't meant to be an argument against other privacy protecting technologies. I'll take them all. Although you can't just compare apples to apples when you speak of close sources technology. I applaud apple for the long held stance of privacy protections.

And to be fair, tor comes at the price of speed. But convince isn't the only thing in the math equation here. Privacy basically boils down to a three part equation these days with the variables being Speed/Convenience.

A lot of that speed and convince can be made up for with being familiar with the tools and adapting to a new norm. The actual network speed isn't really that bad comparatively.

Re: Never Give Them Your Face

#168

Post by panny »

yolo3000 wrote: post #149
panny wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem with that is, parents be like: >Here kid, take my key, go get me some beer. Everyone everywhere gets forced to deal with bullshit, then the people it is supposed to be protecting circumvent it directly.

The same can happen with any type of authentication, unless you are ok with someone pointing a webcam and authenticating you non stop.

No, I think there are parents who would find a long enough webcam cable to point the cam at themselves while Jeff Epstein is grooming their kids in roblox.

The core point is that it isn't my responsiblity to take care of your children. When less than half of millennials (40% men, 55% women) have children, the "think of the children" catchphrase really starts to fall flat. Why should I think of the children? I don't even have children. It's the parents' problem, not mine. Stop making it my problem.

Re: Never Give Them Your Face

#169

Post by ghaff »

wwweston wrote: post #114
munk-a wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are correct that your data isn't particularly impactful for these platforms - but you're also overestimating the value that many of these services have. A fair few of them have competitors with better features and privacy offerings so the only reason you need them is purely for the network effect of everyone else using them.

And increasingly, everyone isn’t using them, even if they’re on them. I’m on Insta and WhatsApp and I use them a few times per year. I’m on Messenger and have seen a dramatic dropoff in messages. I’m on FB frequently and notice only a small fraction of my friends bother anymore and it’s become an interest platform to make up the lack, so I’m trending toward less time there. I’m on Twitter/X but check in maybe once a…

I'm very much like you. There are several apps that I use to communicate with a handful (or less) of people in the world. I see people on travel sites saying "Just use WhatsApp" and I'm more or less, yes it's installed on my phone and I use it with a couple people but it's certainly not something that most people I know use.

Probably something of a demographic (geography/age) thing.

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