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Why Drawing Tablet Brands Won't Collaborate on Linux Floss Drivers

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Re: Why Drawing Tablet Brands Won't Collaborate on Linux Floss Drivers

#41

Post by myrmidon »

burnte wrote: post #33
myrmidon wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not necessarily. The technical people managing the repos might just be opposed to name changing in general (seeing how a boatload of links, references, documentation would require updating, some of which you don't even control), and meanwhile those people might feel the "misbranding" drawbacks much less (if at all).

I would categorize all those as emotional reasons not to change, not logical reasons. "It's hard!" So? "It's complicated" So? "Some of it other people control." This will always be the case, you can't let the perfect be the enemy of the good enough. If the status quo means a worse project, then you're not changing because you don't WANT to, not because it's a good idea. And that's an emotional, not logical ,decision.

Different people have different perspectives.

My point is that from a developers PoV, renaming is not an evident net-gain at all-- might be seen as pointless branding busywork that leeches ressources from "actual" problems.

That is not "being emotional", it's just different priorities.

Re: Why Drawing Tablet Brands Won't Collaborate on Linux Floss Drivers

#42

Post by redsocksfan45 »

jrm4 wrote: post #30
burnte wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And it's been a decade long argument? Sounds like someone is just emotionally attached to something not changing. Those are the hardest problems to solve.

Preach. And it's a disease . Signed, the guy who will forever believe GIMP could have been a contender with a name change decades ago.

[dead]

Re: Why Drawing Tablet Brands Won't Collaborate on Linux Floss Drivers

#43

Post by jrm4 »

pmontra wrote: post #35
jrm4 wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Preach. And it's a disease . Signed, the guy who will forever believe GIMP could have been a contender with a name change decades ago.

In non-English speaking countries gimp is a short word that is so seldom used that nobody knows what it means. I used GIMP for a very long time before running into a story about the meaning of the English world. It was only GNU Image Manipulation Program to me. It still is a contender for image editing programs, for limited photo retouch, for very limited drawing (draw a rectangle outline without googling?) I use Lib…

I've been up and down this debate a million times, a lot of it here, suffice it to say -- the fact that you and others don't recognize this does not at all detract from my point.

To summarize, it's not e.g. about me being personally offended -- it's about people like me (a long time ago) wanting to show people this great software and other reasonable people seeing the name, understanding the meaning, and reasonably thinking "If this software were actually good, why does it have such a ridiculous and often offensive name?"

An unserious name -- literally chosen to be an edgy joke -- projects "unserious software."

Re: Why Drawing Tablet Brands Won't Collaborate on Linux Floss Drivers

#44

Post by john_strinlai »

burnte wrote: post #33
myrmidon wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not necessarily. The technical people managing the repos might just be opposed to name changing in general (seeing how a boatload of links, references, documentation would require updating, some of which you don't even control), and meanwhile those people might feel the "misbranding" drawbacks much less (if at all).

I would categorize all those as emotional reasons not to change, not logical reasons. "It's hard!" So? "It's complicated" So? "Some of it other people control." This will always be the case, you can't let the perfect be the enemy of the good enough. If the status quo means a worse project, then you're not changing because you don't WANT to, not because it's a good idea. And that's an emotional, not logical ,decision.

i am not sure why you would say that they are "emotional reasons".

comparing the cost (difficulty, complications, etc.) against the benefit of doing something before doing it seems quite logical.

Re: Why Drawing Tablet Brands Won't Collaborate on Linux Floss Drivers

#45

Post by dd8601fn »

__mharrison__ wrote: post #16
fouc wrote: post #7

fork and rename the https://github.com/linuxwacom/wacom-hid-descriptors project, strip all wacom references. then share w/ the other tablet brands. problem solved.

Name it something really confusing like... Linuxtablet

Or, as is tradition, something stupid like “the gimp” or “go”.

Re: Why Drawing Tablet Brands Won't Collaborate on Linux Floss Drivers

#46

Post by WillAdams »

For my part, I've been using Wacom tablets and styluses and digitizers since placing a same day order (2AM) w/ PC Warehouse using their 1-800 number, paying for rush shipping and getting a Wacom ArtZ later that same day.

I've suffered through a lot of non-Wacom EMR styluses in the past, and my preference is to buy the real thing, so I'm okay with the status quo, unless there has been a marked improvement --- that said, who wants multiple stylus technologies? A big improvement in my life was getting the same Wacom EMR support on _all_ of my devices, so I can:

- make a note in MyScript Notes on my Samsung Galaxy Note 10+

- add it into a to-do notebook on my Kindle Scribe Colorsoft

- open the note in Nebo.app on my Samsung Book 3 Pro 360 for reference/editing

- work on the project on my MacBook using a Wacom One display

(and yes, there are times when I have all four devices out)

I couldn't count how many Wacom EMR styluses are scattered around my house or in various laptop bags....

Re: Why Drawing Tablet Brands Won't Collaborate on Linux Floss Drivers

#47

Post by pmontra »

cortesoft wrote: post #29
kouteiheika wrote: post #27

> Well, because it's true: many of the repositories are named after "Wacom". It's a historical legacy on GNU/Linux. It's also a decade-long debate that these repos should be renamed differently. Okay... let's rename them then? I know it's silly, but, well, we've went through the whole pointless `master` -> `main` branch rename in so many projects which was much more disruptive -- at least this one could serve a purpo…

I find it interesting that you think this rename serves a purpose when the master to main rename does not. Neither change has any technical reason. The only reason why either name change was desired is because some contributors were upset by the names.

I'm entering troubled waters but hey... The master to main issue is an accident of the history of the USA, still unresolved in its consequences, when most of the world was not practicing slavery anymore. The typical reaction outside the USA is rolling eyes and hope that all the ethnic groups inside the USA will finally get along. If the IT and economic powerhouse of the world were India instead of the USA and Indians would have picked master instead of main despite the British colonial period, this would be a non-issue: the USA could use a different convention (like for units of measurement) and the rest of the world wouldn't notice.

BTW, every country had its expansionist and genocidal and slavery moments (I'm from Italy, think about the Roman expansion inside Italy, then the empire or our colonial wars 100 years ago.) The USA is one of the most recent examples. It takes time and I understand that master vs main is important inside the country.

The issue of Wacom branding is different because it's a business dynamic and businesses don't want to work for competitors no matter the country, no matter the history. They can work together or an equal footing. So rename to libtablet or whatever.

Re: Why Drawing Tablet Brands Won't Collaborate on Linux Floss Drivers

#48

Post by ffaccount2 »

pmontra wrote: post #35
jrm4 wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Preach. And it's a disease . Signed, the guy who will forever believe GIMP could have been a contender with a name change decades ago.

In non-English speaking countries gimp is a short word that is so seldom used that nobody knows what it means. I used GIMP for a very long time before running into a story about the meaning of the English world. It was only GNU Image Manipulation Program to me. It still is a contender for image editing programs, for limited photo retouch, for very limited drawing (draw a rectangle outline without googling?) I use Lib…

Nobody in my middle and high school had any idea "gimp" had an English meaning. I assume if anyone knew, we kids would at least occasionally joke about it (we used gimp for various projects).

It was long after university after I learned that it's also an English word.

Re: Why Drawing Tablet Brands Won't Collaborate on Linux Floss Drivers

#49

Post by joeld42 »

jrm4 wrote: post #30
burnte wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And it's been a decade long argument? Sounds like someone is just emotionally attached to something not changing. Those are the hardest problems to solve.

Preach. And it's a disease . Signed, the guy who will forever believe GIMP could have been a contender with a name change decades ago.

Yep. I was an intern at Disney Feature Animation when GIMP first came out. It was really exciting, an alternative to Photoshop (which used to run on linux!) and our in-house painting tools. I pushed for artists to use it, but was told by management to stop mentioning it as "Disney could never use a tool called GIMP". Also that reaction from several artists (who were already tech-savvy, linux using folks in the exact target audience) so it wasn't just "corporate". TBH I think a lot of programmers do this intentionally to protect themselves from their little project ever becoming too mainstream.

Re: Why Drawing Tablet Brands Won't Collaborate on Linux Floss Drivers

#50

Post by technojamin »

burnte wrote: post #33
myrmidon wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not necessarily. The technical people managing the repos might just be opposed to name changing in general (seeing how a boatload of links, references, documentation would require updating, some of which you don't even control), and meanwhile those people might feel the "misbranding" drawbacks much less (if at all).

I would categorize all those as emotional reasons not to change, not logical reasons. "It's hard!" So? "It's complicated" So? "Some of it other people control." This will always be the case, you can't let the perfect be the enemy of the good enough. If the status quo means a worse project, then you're not changing because you don't WANT to, not because it's a good idea. And that's an emotional, not logical ,decision.

I think it's the exact opposite of what you're saying. The maintainers sound like they're only considering the technical cost (and judging it not worth it) instead of factoring in the political consequences of keeping the same naming. I actually really respect those who value the technical over the political, but in a large-scale, public-facing project, some politics must be played.

It seems to me like you're viewing the playing of politics as a no-brainer, which is a very different mindset from a Linux contributor. I don't think people get into kernel maintenance to play politics.

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